The Gender A Wider Lens podcast helped me immensely. Blocked and Reported also helped me because even though it's not all about gender it showed me I could question my "progressive brethren" without giving up everything I have believed previously. Also, Sasha Ayad's parent membership group has been invaluable. Not only for Sasha's sage wisdom but I have met other parents through that group that have become true long-lasting "irl" friends. I could not have navigated the past three years without that support system.
I should have said that I also directed her toward the Maggie Goldsmith episodes of Gender: A Wider Lens. I don't think sending whole websites or podcasts helps as much as specific entries. What's everybody's favorite on 4th Wave Now?
I love the idea of using the Eco Scale for this discussion. Great idea, Dr. Mason.
I have been guilty of red-pilling people, or basically sending them off a cliff from a peak trans reference.
All of the references others have mentioned are great. Simply, the Genspect website will be useful.
Unfortunately, when we want to send references to our liberal friends, we are often stuck with sources from right-tilting media--which will be seen as suspect.
Even my husband (who is well aware of the trans medical scandal) was immediately suspicious of a piece from Benjamin Ryan, as it was published in the New York Post.
Definitely avoid sending people to accounts that speak of transhumanism, technology, and Big Phama--these newbies are not ready for an AP course on the trans movement. Who is?
Also tell them to lovingly ask questions to buy time and not to agree to anything - name/pronoun until they have contacted the groups to learn more on how to help. Try not to antagonize them as the kid has been brainwashed and you may not know how deeply especially if they are YA. Sasha and Stella have subscription groups for parents you can ask a question once a month.
Sorry - I meant to post this on the main thread - here is my comment again:
Uf, this is a tough one. I like your article from Skeptic, I didn’t know it existed. I was “red-pilled” and level 10 almost immediately, likely because I’ve always been an authoritative parent who trusts her instincts, I was a goth, a sex worker, and wandered into all sorts of alternative adventures 30 years ago, and I knew the first group of males pretending to be women back then. We all knew then that it was erotic, and even the AGP goths back then didn’t pretend otherwise. I have also worked as a public high school teacher for over twenty years and noticed when the weird girls and lesbians started saying they were boys. These were my people, like me and my friends in the 80’s. What seemed like playful expression turned into very uncomfortable bathroom / changing room choices hitting the PE teachers first. It was all a bit too much and it is now at an epic scale where no one can speak their mind or be openly curious. I try to make these conversations safe to have at school, by talking to teachers and counselors one by one. It’s remarkable how differently people react. Some realize it’s all a sham immediately, while some cling to their trans child fictions. It’s tough. I currently share the O’Malley, Ayad, and Marchiano Trans book for parents, or just episodes from Gender: A Wider Lens. I have a resource list I share with parents, which includes Lisa Selin Davis. I’m going to add the Skeptic piece today. Currently I share Jamie Reed’s whistleblowing article the most, along with the Finnish psychologist’s piece in the Free Press:
‘Gender-Affirming Care Is Dangerous. I Know Because I Helped Pioneer It.' Riittakerttu Kaltiala.
Tell them to request to join the Concerned Parents of Transgender and Nonbinary Kids FB page. There can be lots of aha moments there that may be very familiar to her own experience.
I share my own story of being a true believer in the Gender Cult and then leaving. I speak with compassion about what it means to have a worldview crisis. I reassure them that they're not crazy, bad, or stupid. They weren't then and they aren't now. I urge them to be gentle with themselves as they process a changing worldview.
These are my two favorite starting points:
"Being Wrong: Adventures in the Margin of Error", by Kathryn Schulz
"Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism", by Amanda Montell
The website contains audio recordings that parents and teens can listen to together. The first chapter is closer to a philosophy class than a typical sex ed class. While parents and teens don't necessarily end the program in agreement, it can help improve communication and relationship.
The Wheaton Scale ignores/omits the fact that everyone who benefits from the existence of roads, pavements, streetlights, traffic lights, mains water, electricity and sewage systems, public transport, town halls & other public buildings bears a civilisational cost of CO2 production before their gardening habits (if lucky enough to possess a garden) are even thought about. This realisation doesn't seem to have dawned even at Level 10 of this atomised Eco-paradise.
But yes: don't cast your pearls before swine. Sometimes people can't bear too much reality.
I know one thing I wouldn't do, which is share this eco poster with them. They might just turn around and swallow the blue pill again.
It's not a good comparison. You don't have to do the equivalent of tearing up your driveway, fermenting garbage, or insisting pumpkins are the best meat in order to stop believing in magic gender. You just have to go back to being the same person you were a decade or two ago, but more ornery this time.
Beyond knowing that the real problem your kid has is _not_ having a special gender soul in the wrong body clothes, there are few necessary corollaries, no endless journey to being a special guru. If you're a Catholic, you can stay a Catholic, if you're a liberal, you can stay a liberal, if you hang with the gays, you can still hang with the gays. You just don't have to twist your mind to believe something fundamentally idiotic anymore. The most complicated thing to learn is how to choose your battles.
I have said the following to people who are on the cusp of realizing they might be wrong about what they once thought to be true.
“Being lesbian, gay or bisexual is about who you love romantically / are attracted to sexually. Being trans is about a lack of self love. They don’t belong together.”
I've spoken with two friends with trans identified kids (like mine was) and I definitely come across as over the top crazy person. Your advice about meeting at their level is sage. I recommend they readTime to think but also share a summary of the book in the Times (archive version) as I find many other parents don't want to read or know what might be going on. They just trust the doctors. I wish now that I'd asked them if they asked their kids WHY they feel like the opposite gender and then really listened. It would be a good place to start. Winder lens has been hugely helpful to me. And Leor's posts.
The Gender A Wider Lens podcast helped me immensely. Blocked and Reported also helped me because even though it's not all about gender it showed me I could question my "progressive brethren" without giving up everything I have believed previously. Also, Sasha Ayad's parent membership group has been invaluable. Not only for Sasha's sage wisdom but I have met other parents through that group that have become true long-lasting "irl" friends. I could not have navigated the past three years without that support system.
It's just a metaphor for understanding how to talk to someone who is far away ideologically. I found it very helpful.
I should have said that I also directed her toward the Maggie Goldsmith episodes of Gender: A Wider Lens. I don't think sending whole websites or podcasts helps as much as specific entries. What's everybody's favorite on 4th Wave Now?
Join DIAG--Democrats for An Informed Approach to Gender https://www.di-ag.org/
I love the idea of using the Eco Scale for this discussion. Great idea, Dr. Mason.
I have been guilty of red-pilling people, or basically sending them off a cliff from a peak trans reference.
All of the references others have mentioned are great. Simply, the Genspect website will be useful.
Unfortunately, when we want to send references to our liberal friends, we are often stuck with sources from right-tilting media--which will be seen as suspect.
Even my husband (who is well aware of the trans medical scandal) was immediately suspicious of a piece from Benjamin Ryan, as it was published in the New York Post.
Definitely avoid sending people to accounts that speak of transhumanism, technology, and Big Phama--these newbies are not ready for an AP course on the trans movement. Who is?
Also tell them to lovingly ask questions to buy time and not to agree to anything - name/pronoun until they have contacted the groups to learn more on how to help. Try not to antagonize them as the kid has been brainwashed and you may not know how deeply especially if they are YA. Sasha and Stella have subscription groups for parents you can ask a question once a month.
Give them a gift subscription to Broadview? PITT Parents is a great resource too.
Sorry - I meant to post this on the main thread - here is my comment again:
Uf, this is a tough one. I like your article from Skeptic, I didn’t know it existed. I was “red-pilled” and level 10 almost immediately, likely because I’ve always been an authoritative parent who trusts her instincts, I was a goth, a sex worker, and wandered into all sorts of alternative adventures 30 years ago, and I knew the first group of males pretending to be women back then. We all knew then that it was erotic, and even the AGP goths back then didn’t pretend otherwise. I have also worked as a public high school teacher for over twenty years and noticed when the weird girls and lesbians started saying they were boys. These were my people, like me and my friends in the 80’s. What seemed like playful expression turned into very uncomfortable bathroom / changing room choices hitting the PE teachers first. It was all a bit too much and it is now at an epic scale where no one can speak their mind or be openly curious. I try to make these conversations safe to have at school, by talking to teachers and counselors one by one. It’s remarkable how differently people react. Some realize it’s all a sham immediately, while some cling to their trans child fictions. It’s tough. I currently share the O’Malley, Ayad, and Marchiano Trans book for parents, or just episodes from Gender: A Wider Lens. I have a resource list I share with parents, which includes Lisa Selin Davis. I’m going to add the Skeptic piece today. Currently I share Jamie Reed’s whistleblowing article the most, along with the Finnish psychologist’s piece in the Free Press:
‘Gender-Affirming Care Is Dangerous. I Know Because I Helped Pioneer It.' Riittakerttu Kaltiala.
Tell them to request to join the Concerned Parents of Transgender and Nonbinary Kids FB page. There can be lots of aha moments there that may be very familiar to her own experience.
I share my own story of being a true believer in the Gender Cult and then leaving. I speak with compassion about what it means to have a worldview crisis. I reassure them that they're not crazy, bad, or stupid. They weren't then and they aren't now. I urge them to be gentle with themselves as they process a changing worldview.
These are my two favorite starting points:
"Being Wrong: Adventures in the Margin of Error", by Kathryn Schulz
"Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism", by Amanda Montell
Another resource that requires less reading is:
integrativesexed.com
The website contains audio recordings that parents and teens can listen to together. The first chapter is closer to a philosophy class than a typical sex ed class. While parents and teens don't necessarily end the program in agreement, it can help improve communication and relationship.
The Wheaton Scale ignores/omits the fact that everyone who benefits from the existence of roads, pavements, streetlights, traffic lights, mains water, electricity and sewage systems, public transport, town halls & other public buildings bears a civilisational cost of CO2 production before their gardening habits (if lucky enough to possess a garden) are even thought about. This realisation doesn't seem to have dawned even at Level 10 of this atomised Eco-paradise.
But yes: don't cast your pearls before swine. Sometimes people can't bear too much reality.
I know one thing I wouldn't do, which is share this eco poster with them. They might just turn around and swallow the blue pill again.
It's not a good comparison. You don't have to do the equivalent of tearing up your driveway, fermenting garbage, or insisting pumpkins are the best meat in order to stop believing in magic gender. You just have to go back to being the same person you were a decade or two ago, but more ornery this time.
Beyond knowing that the real problem your kid has is _not_ having a special gender soul in the wrong body clothes, there are few necessary corollaries, no endless journey to being a special guru. If you're a Catholic, you can stay a Catholic, if you're a liberal, you can stay a liberal, if you hang with the gays, you can still hang with the gays. You just don't have to twist your mind to believe something fundamentally idiotic anymore. The most complicated thing to learn is how to choose your battles.
I have said the following to people who are on the cusp of realizing they might be wrong about what they once thought to be true.
“Being lesbian, gay or bisexual is about who you love romantically / are attracted to sexually. Being trans is about a lack of self love. They don’t belong together.”
I've spoken with two friends with trans identified kids (like mine was) and I definitely come across as over the top crazy person. Your advice about meeting at their level is sage. I recommend they readTime to think but also share a summary of the book in the Times (archive version) as I find many other parents don't want to read or know what might be going on. They just trust the doctors. I wish now that I'd asked them if they asked their kids WHY they feel like the opposite gender and then really listened. It would be a good place to start. Winder lens has been hugely helpful to me. And Leor's posts.
I thought Abigail's interview was fantastic! I was thinking of it at the top of your post and happy to see you shared it at the end!
Feel free to connect her to me, I have a network of supportive parents who will help her.