Amen! --> "In a perfect world, what kind of body you have, male or female, wouldn’t have to be inextricably associated with certain toys or colors or personality traits."
Anyone else ever thought that "boyish" behavior in girls and "girlish" behavior in boys is really just human behavior in children? All of us are so pressured and overwhelmed by social norms about gender roles that we can't even see plain old human behavior, especially children's behavior, except through that warped lens. There isn't anything inherently masculine about playing with toy trucks or feminine about playing with dolls. There is practical value in some biological male and female (mostly adults') behavior, but outside of that, none of the rest is anything but a reflection of the values (or lack of values) of a particular society. It goes without saying, I hope: Leave children alone!
Thanks for writing about Shiloh! Like you said, no one is talking about her because it contradicts the narrative. Maybe it’s for the best. If given the chance I’m sure TRAs will just say she’s not a good example because she’s not trans. So frustrating!
Thank you, Lisa, for another magnificent, knowledgeable piece, and so beautifully expressed. I can only speculate on why this piece was rejected, but what I can say, for sure, is the Times, in particular, ought to have published this at the very least as a much-needed corrective to Michelle Goldberg’s incredibly uninformed seat of the pants op-Ed, among other things to drive home the point about social transitioning as an active intervention!
I agree with what you are saying. I think it might be rejected because it’s speaking about a minor who is not a performer herself
But yes. I loved wearing my “ boy” clothes when I was younger and sometimes still do. The point that not following a 1950’s idea of gender doesn’t make you trans should be made
I agree that Shiloh needed privacy growing up, like any child does. But her story is worth hearing now. It's disconcerting that your common sense, compassionate, reality-based article was rejected by news outlets. Shame on them. They exhibit so much fear for no truly justifiable reason (imo) - they are the major press, for goodness sake. Or are they just pandering to the mob? Well, that's my cynical take on it. Anyway thanks for writing this and sharing it here. Your work is much needed and appreciated.
Thanks for using the term cross-sex! I actually never saw much "masculinity" in Shiloh. I wonder if there's some way to avoid these categories? I work like a man in my woods. I also work like a woman dedicated to eradicating nonnative, invasive species and replacing them with native wildflowers. I think the whole thing has to do with the Disney-fication of American culture.
Below, for your viewing pleasure, my commentary on the unskilled Finnish skater, a man who ideates a female persona, and the connection with my ex husband, who also had an "Ice Princess" phase. Very expensive, that!
I remember watching a youtube of Shiloh in her ebullient I'm a boy phase. I wonder how she extracted that self from her video fanbase. Did she have a farewell video?
To answer your question from the perspective of a Biological Psychologist, I would suggest that your narrative — with which I completely agree — does not fit the popular conceptualization of this issue. Much of the rancor and polarization revolving around this issue stems from the fact that most people (on both sides) have mis-conceptualized or misunderstood both the psychological and biological underpinnings of subjective self-perceptions (i.e., identities like gender). Everything I know about how brains work is consistent with your point of view and with your call for more tolerance and openness. See: "Hallucinating Your Inner Trans-Reptile."
However, the common narrative is always couched in an either-or framework. This is particularly true in the case of "gender identity"… And, people on both sides of the issue are talking past each other because of these misconceptions... For instance, "There is "Biological Evidence for Gender Identity..." but it’s not what you think."
A more tolerant reasoned approach — such as yours — is going to be hard to achieve before people come to a better understanding of the issues involved. Thank you for a great essay, Frederick
Hi, all: related to Lisa’s post here, I just listened to what I thought was an excellent interview on BBC4 with a mother and daughter speaking about the daughter’s determination at age 13 that she was trans but after several years decided that wasn’t the case. The mother describes how she and her husband went through this period, asking the hard questions, not accepting the daughter’s name and pronouns, but keeping the door open. This one has a happy ending, I am glad to report. And it’s great to hear such a sensitive interview on the BBC. The interview starts at about 45m in:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001hwzz
I’m glad for Shiloh’s sake that people aren’t reporting about it.
Amen! --> "In a perfect world, what kind of body you have, male or female, wouldn’t have to be inextricably associated with certain toys or colors or personality traits."
Anyone else ever thought that "boyish" behavior in girls and "girlish" behavior in boys is really just human behavior in children? All of us are so pressured and overwhelmed by social norms about gender roles that we can't even see plain old human behavior, especially children's behavior, except through that warped lens. There isn't anything inherently masculine about playing with toy trucks or feminine about playing with dolls. There is practical value in some biological male and female (mostly adults') behavior, but outside of that, none of the rest is anything but a reflection of the values (or lack of values) of a particular society. It goes without saying, I hope: Leave children alone!
I thought about this over the past few years. The one positive reason they may not want to talk about it because Shiloh is a minor.
Thanks for writing about Shiloh! Like you said, no one is talking about her because it contradicts the narrative. Maybe it’s for the best. If given the chance I’m sure TRAs will just say she’s not a good example because she’s not trans. So frustrating!
Great write up, thank you, and wow is the NYT missing out-sadly so are its readers!
Thank you, Lisa, for another magnificent, knowledgeable piece, and so beautifully expressed. I can only speculate on why this piece was rejected, but what I can say, for sure, is the Times, in particular, ought to have published this at the very least as a much-needed corrective to Michelle Goldberg’s incredibly uninformed seat of the pants op-Ed, among other things to drive home the point about social transitioning as an active intervention!
I agree with what you are saying. I think it might be rejected because it’s speaking about a minor who is not a performer herself
But yes. I loved wearing my “ boy” clothes when I was younger and sometimes still do. The point that not following a 1950’s idea of gender doesn’t make you trans should be made
Excellent piece.
I agree that Shiloh needed privacy growing up, like any child does. But her story is worth hearing now. It's disconcerting that your common sense, compassionate, reality-based article was rejected by news outlets. Shame on them. They exhibit so much fear for no truly justifiable reason (imo) - they are the major press, for goodness sake. Or are they just pandering to the mob? Well, that's my cynical take on it. Anyway thanks for writing this and sharing it here. Your work is much needed and appreciated.
This is an excellent article! Thank you.
Thanks for using the term cross-sex! I actually never saw much "masculinity" in Shiloh. I wonder if there's some way to avoid these categories? I work like a man in my woods. I also work like a woman dedicated to eradicating nonnative, invasive species and replacing them with native wildflowers. I think the whole thing has to do with the Disney-fication of American culture.
Below, for your viewing pleasure, my commentary on the unskilled Finnish skater, a man who ideates a female persona, and the connection with my ex husband, who also had an "Ice Princess" phase. Very expensive, that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZjYBHuITLk
I remember watching a youtube of Shiloh in her ebullient I'm a boy phase. I wonder how she extracted that self from her video fanbase. Did she have a farewell video?
To answer your question from the perspective of a Biological Psychologist, I would suggest that your narrative — with which I completely agree — does not fit the popular conceptualization of this issue. Much of the rancor and polarization revolving around this issue stems from the fact that most people (on both sides) have mis-conceptualized or misunderstood both the psychological and biological underpinnings of subjective self-perceptions (i.e., identities like gender). Everything I know about how brains work is consistent with your point of view and with your call for more tolerance and openness. See: "Hallucinating Your Inner Trans-Reptile."
https://everythingisbiology.substack.com/p/hallucinating-your-inner-trans-reptile
However, the common narrative is always couched in an either-or framework. This is particularly true in the case of "gender identity"… And, people on both sides of the issue are talking past each other because of these misconceptions... For instance, "There is "Biological Evidence for Gender Identity..." but it’s not what you think."
https://everythingisbiology.substack.com/p/there-is-biological-evidence-for
A more tolerant reasoned approach — such as yours — is going to be hard to achieve before people come to a better understanding of the issues involved. Thank you for a great essay, Frederick
Lisa and all: in another context, someone just posted an article about Shiloh, from late 2022. Don’t know anything about the magazine or the author, but the POV seems to me very good. https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/angelina-jolies-daughter-shiloh-once-thought-she-was-a-boy-and-asked-to-john-outgrew
Hi, all: related to Lisa’s post here, I just listened to what I thought was an excellent interview on BBC4 with a mother and daughter speaking about the daughter’s determination at age 13 that she was trans but after several years decided that wasn’t the case. The mother describes how she and her husband went through this period, asking the hard questions, not accepting the daughter’s name and pronouns, but keeping the door open. This one has a happy ending, I am glad to report. And it’s great to hear such a sensitive interview on the BBC. The interview starts at about 45m in:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001hwzz