I had hoped to have my APGgate piece done for today but I’m very slow-going post-surgery. So while I’m working on that, I’m opening a thread for you to talk with each other, but I also have a question: How do I turn off the tap and stop talking about gender when I’m with people who don’t want to hear about it?
I’ve never had major surgery before, but I kept thinking about what one of the surgeons at SEGM said: the only reason it’s not assault when I cut into you is that I have your consent. So, like, yeah, recovery has been more difficult than I anticipated and, lo, the arrival of those pesky things called feelings. But through them I got some clarity: the friendships that have become strained are still very important to me. If I think of them as communityships more than friendships, I remain clear-eyed about why I want to maintain them.
But in order to do so, I have to not talk about my work. Thing is, pretty much all day long I interview people who’ve experienced some form of trauma via the gender situation. I am honored to bear witness to it and determined to bring awareness to it, but it’s really hard to duck out of those interactions and return to a land where people don’t see it or don’t care or don’t believe me or just totally hate the way I talk/rant about it. It’s really hard to just set it aside. But I want to. I’m willing to for those brief interactions. But…how?
You don’t have to answer that. Feel free to discuss other things, too.
I've never commented here before, so would like to begin by thanking you for all you do.
It's taken me a very long time to feel the value of just listening and perceiving the person I'm talking to in any given moment, with an attitude of curiosity. And that has changed my life immensely for the better. That might be something that would be helpful as a response to your question. Not that you "should turn off" – how do you do that, anyway? Summoning that curiosity is not easy when I have many strong feelings and opinions wanting to be expressed. But it's so rewarding. And it helps me refrain from imposing my "agenda" on people and so missing out on what they are bringing to me.
I think it's helpful to remember that what is important to one person may not be important to another, which is one reason people can get turned off by activism generally. In one way, an activist is saying, "you should care about this as much as I do". The climate activist may say, how can you not care about this? It's the future of the whole world! The child exploitation activist may say, these children are suffering NOW, who cares about global warming? Or in less confrontational terms, "I think what you care about is important, just not as important as this other thing to me." It's a bit of a stoic approach perhaps. No one can control what others think is important but can be ready to communicate the information to a curious mind. And yeah, sometimes with your friends you just need a break from the big stuff and wanna talk about which office Christmas episode is your favorite.
You hit on something that for me feels like a rupture in connection - when someone does not care about something I see as a huge injustice or violates another of my strong values, I feel overcome with loneliness. I realized this when I was living in a middle-to-upper-middle class town, 15 minutes away from from a town that was mostly poor, & I couldn't understand why my peers did not feel compelled, as I did, to volunteer etc in that town. It struck me that I felt most connected when I was in that town, mentoring teen moms and immersed in people's hardship, while my peers back in my town were sipping lattes after their run. This was almost 20 years ago. I learned then that I NEED to plug into communities and people who care deeply about something like I do, and then I can be with others whose interests and views do not align with mine. I care deeply about issues such as the transgender stuff, as well as the horrors of the opiate epidemic, the alcogenic culture we live in which has harmed so many, the dysfunctional educational system and medical and mental health system, etc. I love to spend time alone, and I have realized that one of the reasons for that is that interactions with people who don't care deeply (not necessarily just about the issues that matter to me) feel superficial and insignificant, so I would rather be alone. If I really like someone or I connect with them in some other way (I enjoy playing tennis with them or running with them, or we have fun conversations on other topics) I will enjoy those experiences, but I don't prioritize time with them. For me, connection is everything - and that's ok.
I feel similarly to you. I love to have deep discussions about things I feel passionate about and I'd rather spend time alone than participate in endless small talk. I believe that everyone needs to plug into communities (big and small) which align with their interests and values. But I also wonder how much that has to do with poor boundaries. If we can't set aside our rants etc. in order to spend a little bit of time with people who we otherwise like, isn't that about poor boundaries? I don't know. I just wonder - and think that it is related somehow!
Yes, I agree re boundaries! I often think about how I feel during and after interactions with people. When it is a healthy interaction, I feel connected and my energy is high. Those times when I feel exhausted or feel the urge to escape or shut down, I now realize that it's unhealthy because, perhaps, I have tried to convince or persuade someone to think like I do and they have resisted my attempts. Thinking of it in terms of boundaries - if I am frustrated that my attempts to get someone to care about eg the transgender issue, or to understand or even agree that it's problematic/scandalous, are met with resistance - then my continued attempts to get the person to care is violating their boundaries. And that doesn't feel good to either party. I need to allow others to care about what they want to care about. When I realized this, it was very freeing. I am still bewildered by people's lack of intellectual curiosity, but I have become more mindful of not trying to convert people to my way of seeing things, unless they show curiosity. That being said, I don't always do this right - it is hard!
It is hard! And I'm with you on the lack of intellectual curiosity. I can understand how people have different priorities and/or are at different points in their lives. But to have curiosity in nothing (yes, there are people like that!) blows my mind!
I think a lot of people feel this way. Partly as a symptom of our "barrage of info" chaotic new world. For what its worth, here's where I landed...
I dont volunteer, i dont help old ladies across the street (ok I obviously do that sometimes 🤪), i dont offer insights on my strong beliefs too often, in short I basically seem like someone who really doeant care about the ills of the world.
But i do care deeply. I just know that I can only do so much because I am human, and if I dont pick my battles wisely I will end up that jack of all trades who accomplishes nothing (in fact I was that person once). So I dont donate to orgs or volunteer in soup kitchens etc. But when I had a business I would hire those who needed the job more, (the single moms, etc) over qualified candidates who might have other opportunities. And I worked hard to make a good work environment and help those people with ANYTHING that would allow them to succeed. Also a very good wage. In 2020 I paid $30K out of my own money to keep my most in-need employees working because i couldnt get govt help.
Currently Im not "working" but I have 3 kids and my husband travels for his career so I work tirelessly at hime now to raise my kids right so they can be the hands on helpers the world needs more of. In fact i'm going to speak at our school committee meeting tonight on pulling our collective shit together so we stop raising kids who cant cope. My argument took a solid month to pull together but I believe it will be effective. Thats my gift to society this month.
Its interesting because I often have the exact same thoughts about my engineer husband when im all worked up about something and he remains cool as a cucumber... "dont you even care about the world?" I say as I look at him like he's a vapid Barbie doll ...and then I remember that his engineering project is going to make lives better for millions and millions of people in 5-10 years. If he was leaning into his outrage about whats happening in front of him all the time he couldnt do his job.
So I think at the end of the day most of us do what we can and give what we can, when and how we are able, but the different ways in which we do it can look like apathy when its really just focus.
This is such a great question! You want to go back to very basic conversation skills. Instead of thinking about what you want to tell the other person (or in your case, what you're trying to get away from telling the other person), think about what new and interesting things you can learn about and from the other person. Start creating a collection of open ended questions that you can ask the other person to get them talking about interesting things that relate to them that have nothing to do with gender. For example, questions like: what are you looking forward to doing in the next few weeks? Are there any books you're looking forward to reading? Is there anything you wish you could change about how your week has been going? Basically you want to ask open ended questions that get the person talking about them self and their interests and then finding ways that you can ask more questions and even find ways to relate to their answers and find common ground to further discuss. But I think the biggest help might be to think about how you can build conversations around learning more about other people and what's going on in their lives.
Side note: I'm looking forward to what you have to write on AGPgate, but I'm also really ready for the focus on what he wore and if he should have worn it to be done because there are much more important things I think we need to be good faith discussing about Phil. I don't care what he was wearing at Genspect. My concern is that he has so quickly become seen as an expert in AGP, including by people like Blanchard and Bailey, with people promoting his book as an educational tool and inviting him to speak at professional conferences (and I don't mean Genspect. He wasn't a presenter there. I'm referring to a Professional sex researcher conference earlier this year where he presented). There is too much weight and credulity being given to everything he says because he's so willing and open to talk about his own AGP. I'm not saying that he doesn't have insights to add to the general body of knowledge on AGP, he most certainly does because of how much time he has spent reading the literature and thinking about his own experiences, but I'm concerned by how many people, including thoughtful therapists and academic researchers, are branding him as some sort of expert. Phil's background is an engineering and physics and he is hyper focused on trans-everything (gender, race, age, etc), his personal pet theories, his redefining of key terms (as Lisa noted in her interview with him), and his insistence he's got AAP and the female experience of it figured out. But he does not have the background knowledge or expertise in areas like psychology, developmental disorders such as autism and ADHD, and child and adolescent development to be making the kinds of sweeping statements and claims that he's making with such certainty. (I've also seen him make some statements that show he is profoundly ignorant about how adolescent girls experience puberty and the changes in their bodies) His claims, especially about adolescent females and ROGD, really show his personal biases and lack of knowledge and extremely relevant areas. I was especially bothered by how he got onto Michelle Alleva's brilliant and very thoughtful Twitter post where she shared her graphic representation of how so many of the things she used to believe "proved" she was trans were actually things related to her autism, her mental health issues, or were just completely inaccurate understandings of things. The way he responded to her by insisting that what she saw as her autistic traits we're still in his opinion signs of AAP showed a concerning unwillingness to consider other points of view and an inappropriate forcing of his opinions on her personal understanding of herself.
He acknowledges that J Michael Bailey thinks he is too "bullish" about AAP, but the researchers keep giving him a platform and amplifying his messages. Still isn't just another experienced sex researcher for Bailey to agree or disagree with and debate. He's not a researcher and he doesn't have relevant background knowledge to be making the claims he is. He is also basing a lot of his ideas and theories on his own personal experiences and his own beliefs about himself, which may or may not even be fully accurate. This is a really bad way to do research and I don't understand why he's being held up as such an expert. Should we listen to him? Of course. I'm sure he has a lot of experiences and insight he can bring to this bigger issue of understanding what a GP is and how to best help these young men. But everything he is saying needs to be put in a better perspective and stop being seen as expert or gospel truth.
I don't like naming and targeting Phil specifically because I am concerned about how he's handling all this attention and criticism being focused on him right now. But he is putting himself out there as an expert and other people who are actually experts are amplifying his theories and potentially integrating them into their own practices. As a result I think there needs to be some thoughtful, good faith critiques of his work. That dress and where he wears it are a distraction from a more important issue with him that needs to be addressed
I did not realize he was being put forward as "the voice" that way. I think his work is best understood as a personal (and *personalized*) understanding of the condition, and related ones. It's one person's opinion, even if it's an encyclopedic 700+ page opinion with footnotes. I value it from that perspective, and think he has a lot of interesting ways of thinking about these various (connected?) issues, but he can really only speak for himself. He goes out on many limbs in that book, and I even appreciate that, but in the end, several of his assertions are as "faith-based" as gender ideology itself. I think it will actually reduce the impact of his book if they put too much pressure on it to hold up for everyone--the thing that makes me like it is it's his extremely personal take.
And for sure, the sections of the book where he focused on AAP were the ones where the limb he was going out on was particularly long and thin.
He strikes me as severely autistic and unable to understand basic theory of mind. So he thinks the disordered way his personal, subjective sexuality developed is “innate” and therefore assumes everyone else must be either “autosexual” or whatever word he came up for for not that. Just like trans people with “cis vs trans.” He’s setting up these arbitrary frameworks for all of human sexuality based on his weird fetishes. Like sure, I could make up terms for someone who is sexually aroused by matchbooks and call it “matchbooksexuality” and profess that everyone is either turned on by matchbooks or turned on in the absence of matchbooks...but I don’t do that bc I’m not insane. Why people validate him is beyond me.
Great comment! I am flabbergasted that so many GC people are willing to do with men like Phil what so many doctors, clinicians, etc did with other gender dysphoric/trans people in the first place: let people with severe psychologically, behavioral, emotional, developmental, and personality issues “drive the bus.” This random man with a self-professed fetish is supposed to be an expert on what, exactly? Sexuality/sexual disorders/sexual offending? Psychology? Human development? Autism and other developmental disorders? He’s just making random stuff up based on what he wants to be true for himself/what feels right. He’s also trans, too, bc he believes men with his “sexual orientation” (notice how he just changed the very definition of sexual orientation to justify his disordered behavior) have a “female essence”...so it’s just more bizarre nonsense coming from a person who harms themselves (in this case, Phil harms himself not medically buy socially) and others (subjecting people to his public fetish is sex offending, which is harm). And women get the same old bs: you’re hysterical, be nice, you’re hurting yourself by not accepting your “allies.” Some autistic men who develop these sexual disorders brand themselves “transwomen” and some brand themselves “autosexuals.” Notice how both agree on their fundamental premise that they shouldn’t be/aren’t responsible for their sexual behaviors and choices.
Since meeting him and attesting to his non-creepiness, I have tried to verify some claims about who Phil is -- such as, where did he get his alleged background in engineering and physics? I have no desire to "out" him, and I do think he contributes something of value to the gender conversation. Still, I am leery of characterizing his views as scientific or authoritative.
I don't feel like he deserves all the personal attacks he's getting. There are ways to discuss even the dress issue that respect all the different perspectives people bring - and isn't Genspect about bringing different perspectives together and finding respectful ways to talk about common goals and concerns? - that don't involve cruelty, name calling, or accusations of inner motives and states we don't know about an individual (and I say that as someone who has not worked through my own thoughts and feelings about what it means for a self-proclaimed AGP to publicly wear clothes that are instruments for their private activities). But for me, the dress is a distraction. I'd rather have good faith, respectful conversations and debates about his theories and how they are being understood or platformed. It was right for Genspect to take down the post with the picture of him and Laura NOT because of the dress, but because it implied an endorsement of the book without exploring many of its legit critiques, some of which are in direct conflict with Genspect, like their views on medicalization. And speaking of that picture, it wasn't just the way Phil was talked about that bothered me. I was dismayed at how some defenders of the picture spoke to people who expressed good faith, non personal attack concerns as well as the awful way Laura was treated.
I see he just posted a long thread explaining why he thinks it's reasonable to medicalize children but mitigate harm by skipping puberty blockers and putting them directly on cross-sex hormones. Then he seems to enjoy calling out the "GCs" who are "popping off" in response. He provided no science or evidence for his "proposal."
Phil certainly put the cat among the pigeons from the various responses I read on X & other sources; Genspect’s credibility was seriously compromised in some quarters. However, I hope the furore over him will soon die down. We must not lose sight of the serious work that’s being done.
It basically boils down to them offering free tickets to certain people and everyone else paying a lot for a ticket $550+ not including airfare etc. it’s a big deal for parents, especially moms. It would have been easy to say “Phil wear something non-fetishy if you want a free ticket.
Then publishing the photos on Twitter was tome deaf...then having a bunch of men (the James Lindseys) blaming this on feminists is the worst PR. They just need some good PR. I don’t want friends breaking apart over this. It’s just evidence that social media is very unhealthy.
I really hope it’s not true that had Detransioners pay their own way (who knows what to believe at this point). But that would be end of Genspect if that’s true.
Arggh, he didn't put himself out there, you all who can't stop naming him did. Just please stop talking about him especially by name. He probably wanked 3 times reading your post.
My "like" is for the first paragraph. I don't know anything about the rest of your comment, so I'm not judging that in any way. As someone who is good at chatting up strangers, I think your advice about how to get people talking is right on.
That said, I have to admit that while I do well at chatting up strangers and in one-on-one conversations with friends and family, I am at a loss when it comes to chatting up anyone during family gatherings or in small groups of friends. The techniques I've used on strangers don't seem to work in small groups.
Dear Lisa: first off, I want to send further wishes for your full recovery and lots and lots of happiness in this new phase of your life. I sure do empathize with the question you raise, and with much less cause, as, while I read and think about this a good bit, and write public officials when there is need, I have nothing like the constant drumbeat of sorrow your daily work brings to you. J and I verbally commit to ourselves before meeting with friends, “this time, we will not bring this up, and just have a pleasant evening. And if someone else brings it up, we vow to listen more than talk, and carefully weigh in with just a fact or two, a la Helen Joyce’s advice, just say one thing, then let it go.
Well, I cannot begin to count the number of times we have each broken that promise! It’s so hard to be so critically aware how many people are hurting, and at the same time to realize so many people, particularly on our side of the aisle, remain in the dark, and with bad information, to boot. I will say this, when we have succeeded, it has been helpful to us, just to have a breather from it all, too. So, yes, cherish the friends you care about, try to give yourself a break and set this aside for a bit. . . . though I confess, even then, we can’t help but look for an opening, and then try our best to tread lightly with real information. We have found that’s been satisfying too, for sometimes friends do actually listen and think and begin to understand why this is all so awful and needs to change.
Well, this is, I’m afraid, a bit stream of consciousness, so I’ll stop. Thank you for all you do, all you are, and most of all for your very big heart.
1. It is hard for me to turn off the tap, too. I'm getting more skilled at asking the other person questions unrelated to gender and doing long listening.
2. I remind myself that I am not going to change anyone's mind by ranting. Waiting for the right opportunity to plant a seed is challenging.
3. I try to see where the other person is trying to make connections and take them there. It's OK if we are avoiding the elephant in the room if we are making connections in other ways.
It's kind of an adaptation of advice I heard from Lisa Marchiano where staying connected to your child is really the primary goal and to not make everything about the fraught subject. That said, it's hard to let go.
Hope you can take the time you need to recovery from surgery. It will take as long as it needs to take. Be well.
This comes up for me ALL THE TIME in my lovely yoga world. Most people in this circle are well-intentioned in blindly practicing "inclusion" (as I did before ROGD tore my child's mental health apart). The current language of inclusion is a simple set of rules, while the multifaceted paths to ROGD, social contagion, teen body hatred and control, etc, etc, etc, is complex, nuanced, and difficult to discuss.
So I usually just leave it alone.
But, when I'm asked to introduce myself with my preferred pronouns, I don't. I politely give my name and credentials, smile kindly, and pass it to the next person. I notice that sometimes this seems to give others permission to do the same. It's a small gesture, but it indicates that not everyone is actually comfortable with "the rules".
Usually I don't mention anything about gender anymore in social settings. As an ROGD parent, I became used to the alienation and lack of understanding, the oversimplified catch phrases people use without any knowledge of the devastating consequences (healthcare for trans kids - who would deny that?!). Occasionally, if I feel like there's a window of nuance open, I'll mention that I support people who identify as trans but am concerned about how many teenage females are wearing tight chest binders and how that affects their breathing and nervous systems ( yoga people KNOW the importance of unrestricted breathing). I might mention that my child has at least 10 classmates who do this every day. Maybe it plants a seed in those who already wonder...
My daughter - who spent nearly 2 years trans identified - is now 15, desisted and happy to be a girl. She jokes about when she used to be an "emo boy" and how she simply realized that "boobs are great!". Of course it wasn't that simple for her and she knows it - she also lost friends, missed opportunities, and bears self harm scars from that era of body hatred. But I think she's on to something with her lighthearted technique. She's taking away the power of the claim that all trans kids should be transitioned, confirming that it CAN INDEED be a phase, and essentially brushing it off her shoulder like an old boyfriend, "Thank u, Next!".
Rakimsa, I really appreciate your comment, as a fellow yoga instructor. I also immediately stated I was "inclusive" in various ways (on my website, eg). But then as I learned about the realities of what this means, and ROGD, etc., I immediately removed any mentions of inclusivity or affirming from my website, email signature, etc. I think many in the yoga community as well as therapists (which I am) and other helping professions, with the most positive intentions immediately say, of course I am affirming and want to promote inclusivity! But we don't know what we don't know - until we start to learn about what is really going on and as you say, how nuanced it is. At one of the addictions treatment centers where I work, recently an adult participant in a group I lead shared with me privately that as a bisexual 25-year-old man, he HATES how all of the groups and other situations in the treatment context begin with everyone being encouraged to state their pronouns. He is very thankful that I don't even mention pronouns - apparently I am the only therapist who doesn't. He said that he actually feels that pronoun statements engender exclusion and are performative. Anyway, I am so happy to hear how your daughter is doing and love her sense of humor and courage. She and you inspire me!
Oh thank you Michele! I so appreciate that! And I know people like us - who DO care about inclusivity but have deeper knowledge about the complexity of gender issues - are growing in number. We're the ones quietly not asking for, or offering, pronouns.... 💜
I don't have time for a long reply but wanted you to know I read you're article and these comments. I too am isolated, feel like a pariah in my communities for my GC concerns. I see the situation with tomboys, teenage girls as such an emergency globally; yet my lesbian friends couldn't care less.. my partner and I created a series of 6 discussions in our BLAST MeetUp of florid, Palm beach county, partially too meet like minded women, and no one is signing up
Topics for first 6 meetings
1. Definitions & Women in Sports NOV
2. Lesbian Erasure, Sex Not Gender, Dec
3. Threats to children (talking to family, friends) Jan
4. Loss of women’s rights under law, censorship Feb
5. GC HEROES, Kellie Jay Keen, JK Rowling; etc... Mar
6. How to talk to others Apr
Women aren't interested ugh! I have no friends anymore
But we are reading your article & you never know the connections you might be making. For example, I live in England 🏴 & the fight is just as fierce over here. I’m constantly astonished at the sheer numbers of people who have yet to be peaked about trans issues. Some class actions have already begun & there’ll be many more to follow. I’m convinced that the tide is turning. Good luck in your efforts & do take a break now & then. Sending love, sister. X
Hang in there. It may take time. It is hard for lesbians to connect these days, what with the decline in lesbian media, gathering places, bookstores, etc.
Great question, Lisa! I was thinking about it the other day when I was hanging out with relatives and realized that I have very little to talk about aside from my two main concerns: gender and education, and more specifically how bad education has become in Ontario where I live. I became so engrossed in these issues that I haven't actually read or listened to anything about anything else! So I decided to start actively broadening my interests - watch some shows/movies, maybe read about some historical period about which I know very little. I have yet to act on this, but the intention is there.
Thank you for all you do Lisa, and I wish for you a good recovery. Take time and take care of yourself.
About your question.
One thing I have struggled with is that this gender issue was the issue that opened my eyes to many weaknesses of "my side." So many of my social groups are all progressive and we have always spent a certain amount of time talking about politics, the world etc etc. And now I distrust so much coming from my side. If my people fell for this gender woo and literally aren't seeing the harm caused, the illogical of it all - how can I trust them on other issues? It has made me question so much. So it isn't only the gender issue I feel "off" about right now. I want to question everything. Is my side's interpretation or ideas for solutions correct about anything? Another issue that mirrors it a lot is the controversy about teaching reading (the podcast "Sold a Story" highlighted this). So many people just went along with something that wasn't making sense and was actually harming those it was supposed to help.
So - I hold back on many issues right now. I'm trying to work on a more passive face and a "huh, interesting" type response. Then divert to non political topics.
Yes to everything you just said here. As a former elementary teacher, I was "Sold a Story" in grad school in the late 90's and proceeded to teach children to read without phonics. It wasn't until my own child was diagnosed with dyslexia that I learned all about the importance of systematic phonetic instruction for all children, but especially those who struggle to read. I am still stung with guilt over this 15 years later.
Now, the same child is struggling through ROGD, I feel like the blinders have been pulled from my eyes and I want everyone to see what I see.
So, after two years of talking all of my amazingly smart, liberal friend's ears off about it and not seeing much change in their thinking, I am trying to stick with other topics. I have to hope that I have at least caused them to question a bit more and if a friend of their's mentions this is happening with their child, maybe they will pause and send them my way rather than just going with "gender affirming care".
I make a pact with my husband that I will not stray onto this topic in polite company. But usually after one glass of wine I remember that if I don't speak up about it, who will? So, round and round I go until more people wake up.
Wow - one of the things that stood out for me from that podcast is the guilt the teachers felt. Truly heartbreaking.
I hear you about talking to friends. I do tiptoe about the issue and rarely (but occasionally) kind of "go off" to friends I know who will be ok with it (but not quite agreeing with me). That is funny what you said about your husband. Mine just knows this issue (gender) really gets me fired up (it wasn't in my family, but my daughter dated a trans boy (natal female) in highschool, and had a trans kid in her theater program which got me looking into how this could be statistically possible....which opened my eyes to all of this) and he rolls his eyes (but agrees with me) but hopes I won't spend too much time ranting.
I hope your child gets through this. I can't imagine being a parent. Although, it does seem to me that compared to just a couple years ago there are more resources and ways to find others to talk to are way better than they were.
I've often wondered how I could "signal" to the world (acquaintances or others) that I would be an understanding ear if they are in this situation and aren't comfortable with the affirmation only that is happening. I know most people in my circles would be under a great deal of pressure to comply and I want people to know there are others in their midst who would be of support. Not sure how to do that.
Yesterday I shared an article with my one 30-something relative who agrees with me entirely on the gender issues. Your Substack has been helpful in her journey, as it has for so many Lisa. The article I sent wasn't about gender, it was about Israel, Bari Weiss speaking to the Federalist Society. My relative is heterodox on gender, but has hated Bari since she left the NYT and discounts that anything remotely illuminating could be connected to the Federalist Society. (I mean, I used to do so too! Now I don't automatically disregard a point of view just because it comes from the "wrong" place.) I got a pretty sharp reply responding with language about colonization and saying she couldn't listen to more than a few minutes of it and how could she respect anything from the Federalist Society. I'd obviously irritated her greatly. It's so hard to talk about these subjects that are so polarized--and where a whole generation has been thoroughly indoctrinated with the "right" way to think about a number of subjects--gender, race, and certainly Israel. I'd assumed an openness to some frames about Israel that I should not have assumed. She was right--this was not the best link to send her. I have dived deep into all kinds of media around Israel, partly because I have a good friend who lives on one of the kibbutzim near the Gaza border who has been living through a nightmare. I hear heartbreaking stories from her every day, just like you hear heartbreaking stories about how gender ideology has harmed people. But like with gender, there is a learning curve progressives must go through to see the picture clearly. At least clearly from my point of view. It's a process.
I bring all this up not to hash out views about Israel, but because this prickly reply reminded me to just chill out, express love, back up. I've had a good deal of practice in this with my friends over the past few years with gender. I was glad she was honest, and told her that. I don't need to talk to her about Israel, or if I want her to understand how I am seeing things and what I am thinking I need to be much, MUCH more mindful about what I share with her. Unlike with gender, there is plenty of interesting and varied deep-dive coverage about Israel in the New York Times after all.
When I started trying to communicate with my friends about gender, I had too much zeal. I think a lot of us relate to that. Some got closed off, seemingly forever. I am still sad about them. I have some amazing friends, who still do not agree with me about gender, but still want to be my friends. Their skillful, loving friending is part of the reason we are still friends, and part of it is my own approach. These have taught me to talk about other things, connect on other things, but now and again if I feel something just might get through, I will share it. This issue is important to me and part of who I am, so it is inauthentic and outside my concept of friendship to always avoid it. It's much harder for you Lisa because this is actually your job. I'm not sure how that can work, but I'm pretty sure you can't avoid the topic entirely with some of them. But you don't have to talk about it as much, even if they bring it up. Recently one of my friends who disagrees with me brought it up and I realized I just couldn't go there in that moment, so I said so. Same with you--even more so. You are not "on the job" 24/7. There are some great suggestions in these comments. Another way to think about it is that these people you love keep you honest and help you keep defining your path in life. They are part of you. Life is NOT all about fighting gender ideology and fixing this terrible wrong. You don't have a monopoly on the truth either, which I know you know. There are many terrible wrongs in the world, and we cannot be fighting all the time. Life is precious and short and love matters the most. Enjoy the small and beautiful gifts with your friends where you can find them. Sending you good healing vibes!
I can relate to wanting to break through to others on both the topics of gender and Israel--in my case, mainly to my daughters. But it never goes well. Thanks to Elizabeth and everyone else for the reminders that less in this area is generally more.
Dear Lisa, you are suffering post-surgical trauma & you need to rest. I understand that your brain can be racing even though your body feels weak. I speak from experience as someone who’s had several major surgeries & know something about how you might be feeling. Perhaps you might try a bit of mindfulness whilst your body is healing. I can’t say much more than that since I don’t know about your particular circumstances. I’d like very much to thank you for the work you do & know that it’s appreciated. Love from your sister in England 🏴.
Hey! First, Lisa, thank you for your tireless work on this issue!!!!
Second, parents on here: Anone have a gender dysphoric teen with autism? My MTF was just diagnosed with autism, Level 1 ("high functioning"). My reaction is basically, Of course. This explains everything. His reponse is, This changes nothing. They are starting college in the fall (not sure where yet). I'm just wodnering if anyone has any wisdom to share about ASD and gender vis a vis teens and young adults. Oooof.
Sheryl, I assume you've seen Benjamin Boyce's lovely interview with an autistic desisted college student and his father, but just in case, I'll link it here. It's such a touchy subject--Christina Buttons gave a great presentation on autism and gender at the Genspect conference and how life-changing it was for her to finally get a diagnosis at 30ish, but it seems to me that adolescents are as likely to be touchy and defensive about the diagnosis being "the answer" as they are to welcome the opportunity for help and self-awareness. I think it would be worth getting some personal or family counseling on how to lower conflicts around it. Benjamin Boyce on Gender and Autism: https://youtu.be/FoEWbVviOpk?si=1IU-biVE9WPhWlRA
YES. We haven't said a word about ASD being a "cause" of their trans beliefs, but they seem to be ready for the argument already. sigh. luckily, we have a great therapist that our kid likes, who is non-affirming but very open and "cool."
I’ve been working with Dr. Edwards-Leeper for a year and she is trained to work with this group of kids and has said that sometimes getting an autism diagnosis from a Dr can help the family discuss that being a good reason for gender confusion and if you get the right psychologist they can work with the autism diagnosis as a catalyst to resolve the GD issues which go hand in hand which I’m just starting to learn about that. I just wanted to mention that bc she does include parents of young adults in these discussions and goes over seriousness of side effects of cross sex hormones. So much so that my daughter changed her mind and got annoyed that she told her how serious these drugs are regularly.
my son fits that profile. He's "twice gifted". That is: extremely high IQ coupled with sensory processing disorder & slow processing speed (which manifests with autism-like social awkwardness). He has estranged himself from family following induction into trans movement in first semester of college during COVID.
Do I have any advice for you? First: those with autism have "black & white" thinking. This rigidity helps them maintain a sense of order amidst our fluid & chaotic world. So, try to remain in the "white" zone. That is: try very much to remain within your child's trusted cohort. This will be difficult because trans ideology teaches that parents are hateful & completely disposable. But try, for your child's sake as much as your own.
Second: college could easily radicalize your child, pushing him deeper into the trans world. Expect this. ... How to guard against it? Many recommend not sending such a child to college, or at least keeping them at a college close to home. ...
Clearly I failed. I was flying blind. Bottom line: love you child & Hold him close.
You did NOT fail. We're all building the plane while we're flying it! And lord, you just described my kid. I love how you expressed it, staying in the white zone! That's perfect. And yeah, we are often considered villains in this story. So frustrating. The other day, I was talking to him about something he was unhappy about and I said, "I don't expect you to love me right now. It's ok. I have enough love for both of us."
Huge issues for those with autism or for highly intelligent eccentric people with social issues in my experience:
black and white thinking (the root of many mental illnesses). Does he have B&W thinking about women and men’s behaviors? “Cis people don’t think this, therefore I must be trans” Etc. If so, challenge this. This is illogical thinking.
Sensory processing issues (being grossed out or overwhelmed by the sensory elements of your body like skin, hair, genitals, etc doesn’t mean you’re trans. It means you have sensory processing issues. (Which I think can actually affect the development of body dysmorphia).
Sexuality issues (related to sensory processing issues- people can learn to masturbate in weird ways or not masturbate at all bc they literally can’t handle the sensory elements of touching that part of their body) can arise. Masturbation can become compulsive for autistic people (a self soothing or stimming tool) or sexuality develops later or one can’t see themselves being able to get close emotional/socially/physically with another to have sex.
Alexithymia- or “emotion blindness” is common in autistic people. Having a crush on someone and not understanding what you feel at all or even that you feel anything, etc. Deep confusion about sexuality or other social dynamics can occur from this.
Over-intellectualization. This is HUGE for people who are highly intelligent but not yet wise. If there are ANY bugs or flaws in your logic, you can follow your logic to its rational conclusion and end up in a thoroughly non-logical place without even realizing that you have been led astray by an error early on. Highly intelligent, systematic thinkers can ironically make GIGANTIC errors of logic or decision making. I view it like autoimmune disorders: the stronger your immune system, the less likely you are to get sick from viruses or infections, but also the more likely you are to develop an autoimmune disorder (the system is so strong it takes itself down). Over intellectualization can cripple the health, happiness, and development of intelligent people. To quote Dumbledore from Harry Potter: “I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, being- forgive me- rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger.”
I’m a parent of an ROGD girl. This has occupied my thought nearly 24/7 for the last 4 years, keeping me awake at night, making it hard to concentrate. But I’m getting better at being ok, even if I’m not ok with that.
For me, a hobby has helped. I bought a classic car and am currently restoring it. Great topic of conversation. I also read lots of fiction. Both of these things help keep my mind off of the topic and give me other things to talk to people about.
I’m also the mom of a ROGD girl, in this mess for 4 years! I only talk about these issues with people I know think as I do. Too many disappointments in the past few years have made me cautious and I’m also exhausted by the topic. My local support group chapter of Parents of ROGD Kids is my place to talk about it.
Here are some compiled videos from the conference held this September in Santa Fe titled: "Sex/Gender Differences: The Big Conversation." I did not attend but eavesdropped here and there via zoom.
There's a lot of angles to this story but one I'd like to emphasize is how the internet has seemingly normalized AGP behaviors to the point where Mr. Copeland felt comfortable sharing his femme persona on social media. It probably didn't seem to him as though he were transgressing because there's an ocean of people like him doing the same thing. My point here is not to vilify this poor guy but to point out that, for many like Mr. Copeland, the internet has become an alternate, more worldly universe where the illusion of societal acceptance prevails. Mr. Copeland's mistake was assuming that alternate world extended to his tiny Alabama community.
I'm probably going to be the lone troublemaker here who thinks that it's crucial for you NOT to turn off the tap, not to self-censor. Of course you don't want to be overbearing or tedious, but I can't see you being either of those. In the midst of this social and medical insanity I think it's crucial to keep the conversation going, to raise awareness in people who haven't been paying attention.
Part of my reason for saying this is that I'm too good at self-censoring. I'm too afraid of damaging fragile relationships or getting into unpleasant discussions. I admire those of you who aren't afraid to introduce uncomfortable topics and don't take it personally when someone pushes back on what you're saying. One reason I have supported your work is that you so boldly go where wimps like me, who are less articulate and less sure of ourselves, rarely have the courage to go.
If you're intent on turning off the tap, I hope that you're doing it for the reasons you stated. If you're sure that the person you're talking to really doesn't care about your work or the topic of gender, then by all means, avoid the topic. If in fact it's you who are tired of talking about it, then maybe you need a break!
But Lisa, I’M one of the traumatized whose stories you hear. You are like a priest. It has become your life’s work. However, meditatively, even priests have to be above the fray sometimes when other folks can’t/won’t yet have the knowing. It’s like Joan of Arc, also, hearing and knowing things that have a wider mission attached even though others don’t understand.
I’m glad you are acknowledging healing from surgery has surprised you in that it takes time to heal. Feel better soon. And that’s an incredible quote from the surgeon.
Thank you for the Tuesday Open Thread. Much appreciated to see everyone’s responses and thoughts.
PS (I also have to have a surgery in February 2024. Gulp.)
I'm wishing you courage and strength for a strong recovery.
For myself, "turning off the tap" often involves biting my tongue (pretty much literally) and deep breathing. Then I consciously turn my attention to other topics and toward what the other person is feeling/expressing.
On another topic: the recent news flurry about the suicide of the small town Alabama mayor & Baptist preacher, Bubba Copeland, had me transfixed this weekend. I wrote a short opinion piece on what's wrong with the journalists' representation of the story, but now I'm not sure what to do with the essay. This comes at a difficult time for you, but one person did recommend that you might be interested in it.
Hi, all: I know some here have addressed the issue that arose re Genspect. I have hesitated to weigh in, as I was not there, but I saw another tweet today that concerned me, this one from James Lindsay, who I gather spoke at the conference, and I felt I had an obligation to speak up. I want to note at the outset that I do respect the concerns raised by several women, which I think Heather Heyring put very well in her Substack piece on the incident: “Even if it is true that any particular man will not behave in a predatory way to women, the public display of fetish opens up doors to predators who would. We had a social contract that did a good job of keeping women safe. Public display of fetish begins to dismantle that contract.”
That said, I tend to think enough ink has been spilled on the person himself. At this point what concerns me more is some of the commentary on Twitter in response to the very valid concerns some women raised. Here is Lindsay’s comment today, together with his Twitter handle:
James Lindsay, manspreading into feminist angst
@ConceptualJames
Dumb feminist hags think they can struggle me. They don't get it. I don't just not care about them. I don't respect them. I don't like them. They're powerless over me. It's a joke and fun for me to mock and expose.
At a minimum, comments like this show bad judgment and a lack of professionalism, as well as having the potential to undermine the goal all of us are trying so hard to achieve. Particularly as Genspect has done and is doing so much good work, and has profiled so many people I admire, I hope this behavior will not be brushed aside and will be taken seriously.
Why does anyone trust Phil Illy? Because he wrote a book? Because he purports to be honest about his condition? Because he gave interviews? I don't trust him, not one little bit.
As a « different » person, most of the things I am interested in and passionate about aren’t interesting to anyone around me. I have to refrain from talking about mostly everything with them. Because of that, I am completely isolated and lonely. This is not any helpful for you, but I would say, just find a passion. I recently started playing the bass, at 41, and I got super interested and it shifted my attention to less controversial and disturbing topics ( gender, drag queens, socialism, pollution, overpopulation). It rejuvenates the discourse when you shift your gaze and people are less... scared.
Hope healing is thorough for you Lisa. I have enjoyed reading your stack since I was introduced to it a few months ago with the onset of working with PARENTS & FAMILY of ROGD kids & teens. This is an easy space to come to to learn & be cognizant of what is transpiring in genderland currently. I continue to try & reach parents/family members in MARYLAND who may be suffering, looking for counseling/support through the gendermaze. Of course we know, gender is a misguided human construct based on judgements & stereotypes (thanks John M). I can be found on Psychology Today & GETA. I know you're out there...I'm looking for you too.
Great question. I try to remember (sometimes successfully) that each of us only has mental spece for one issue and I don't appreciate being judged for not caring (deeply) about their issue.
I try to keep a list of some things (either in my mind or on paper) that I find interesting that are not gender related so I can pull those things out when I'm with people who don't want to talk about the gender stuff. This works a large part of the time. It has also helped me remember and refocus on some other things in life that matters to me outside the gender space. Sometimes these other things seem really trivial and it takes work to keep the conversation from straying. But I have found that this approach has preserved some of my strained friendships. And has probably helped preserve some of my own sanity as well. My other technique is that when I have a burning thought or article that I catch myself gearing up to share with the disinterested folks, I just stop mid-text, delete and then instead send it to one of my friends that are in the "gender headspace." This helps as well!
It is likely that you are suffering from secondary (if not primary) PTSD. Check out the EVERY MEMORY DESERVES RESPECT book and consider some EMDR therapy if you haven’t already. It’s an efficient way to shift trauma reactions and allow for a more grounded, balanced life experience. We need to sort out what we can and cannot change, how much any one person can accomplish, and how to restore ourselves to live with more effectiveness and joy in the midst of personal and social challenges beyond our maladaptive trauma responses.
A few random thoughts in response to your question ...
*Not spending time with people with whom we disagree fuels the polarization that is rampant in our country.
*If they are friends, maybe you could just put it out there ... "I'm struggling to leave my work/passion behind. Do you guys have thoughts about that?"
*I understand what some have said about spreading the word - and I think this is so VERY important! But, there is also value in realizing - sometimes - that not everyone wants to hear it or that "spreading" isn't appropriate at this time.
*As a parent, I've come to realize that you may not be the person that these people will be able to hear. In other words, my children can't hear what I'm saying - but they can get the exact same message loudly and clearly from someone else!
I've never commented here before, so would like to begin by thanking you for all you do.
It's taken me a very long time to feel the value of just listening and perceiving the person I'm talking to in any given moment, with an attitude of curiosity. And that has changed my life immensely for the better. That might be something that would be helpful as a response to your question. Not that you "should turn off" – how do you do that, anyway? Summoning that curiosity is not easy when I have many strong feelings and opinions wanting to be expressed. But it's so rewarding. And it helps me refrain from imposing my "agenda" on people and so missing out on what they are bringing to me.
From Mark Manson ...
Curiosity cures: anxiety, ignorance, selfishness, extremism
Curiosity creates: empathy, compassion, knowledge, growth
Curiosity prevents: arrogance, judgement, stagnation
I think it's helpful to remember that what is important to one person may not be important to another, which is one reason people can get turned off by activism generally. In one way, an activist is saying, "you should care about this as much as I do". The climate activist may say, how can you not care about this? It's the future of the whole world! The child exploitation activist may say, these children are suffering NOW, who cares about global warming? Or in less confrontational terms, "I think what you care about is important, just not as important as this other thing to me." It's a bit of a stoic approach perhaps. No one can control what others think is important but can be ready to communicate the information to a curious mind. And yeah, sometimes with your friends you just need a break from the big stuff and wanna talk about which office Christmas episode is your favorite.
You hit on something that for me feels like a rupture in connection - when someone does not care about something I see as a huge injustice or violates another of my strong values, I feel overcome with loneliness. I realized this when I was living in a middle-to-upper-middle class town, 15 minutes away from from a town that was mostly poor, & I couldn't understand why my peers did not feel compelled, as I did, to volunteer etc in that town. It struck me that I felt most connected when I was in that town, mentoring teen moms and immersed in people's hardship, while my peers back in my town were sipping lattes after their run. This was almost 20 years ago. I learned then that I NEED to plug into communities and people who care deeply about something like I do, and then I can be with others whose interests and views do not align with mine. I care deeply about issues such as the transgender stuff, as well as the horrors of the opiate epidemic, the alcogenic culture we live in which has harmed so many, the dysfunctional educational system and medical and mental health system, etc. I love to spend time alone, and I have realized that one of the reasons for that is that interactions with people who don't care deeply (not necessarily just about the issues that matter to me) feel superficial and insignificant, so I would rather be alone. If I really like someone or I connect with them in some other way (I enjoy playing tennis with them or running with them, or we have fun conversations on other topics) I will enjoy those experiences, but I don't prioritize time with them. For me, connection is everything - and that's ok.
I feel similarly to you. I love to have deep discussions about things I feel passionate about and I'd rather spend time alone than participate in endless small talk. I believe that everyone needs to plug into communities (big and small) which align with their interests and values. But I also wonder how much that has to do with poor boundaries. If we can't set aside our rants etc. in order to spend a little bit of time with people who we otherwise like, isn't that about poor boundaries? I don't know. I just wonder - and think that it is related somehow!
Yes, I agree re boundaries! I often think about how I feel during and after interactions with people. When it is a healthy interaction, I feel connected and my energy is high. Those times when I feel exhausted or feel the urge to escape or shut down, I now realize that it's unhealthy because, perhaps, I have tried to convince or persuade someone to think like I do and they have resisted my attempts. Thinking of it in terms of boundaries - if I am frustrated that my attempts to get someone to care about eg the transgender issue, or to understand or even agree that it's problematic/scandalous, are met with resistance - then my continued attempts to get the person to care is violating their boundaries. And that doesn't feel good to either party. I need to allow others to care about what they want to care about. When I realized this, it was very freeing. I am still bewildered by people's lack of intellectual curiosity, but I have become more mindful of not trying to convert people to my way of seeing things, unless they show curiosity. That being said, I don't always do this right - it is hard!
It is hard! And I'm with you on the lack of intellectual curiosity. I can understand how people have different priorities and/or are at different points in their lives. But to have curiosity in nothing (yes, there are people like that!) blows my mind!
I think a lot of people feel this way. Partly as a symptom of our "barrage of info" chaotic new world. For what its worth, here's where I landed...
I dont volunteer, i dont help old ladies across the street (ok I obviously do that sometimes 🤪), i dont offer insights on my strong beliefs too often, in short I basically seem like someone who really doeant care about the ills of the world.
But i do care deeply. I just know that I can only do so much because I am human, and if I dont pick my battles wisely I will end up that jack of all trades who accomplishes nothing (in fact I was that person once). So I dont donate to orgs or volunteer in soup kitchens etc. But when I had a business I would hire those who needed the job more, (the single moms, etc) over qualified candidates who might have other opportunities. And I worked hard to make a good work environment and help those people with ANYTHING that would allow them to succeed. Also a very good wage. In 2020 I paid $30K out of my own money to keep my most in-need employees working because i couldnt get govt help.
Currently Im not "working" but I have 3 kids and my husband travels for his career so I work tirelessly at hime now to raise my kids right so they can be the hands on helpers the world needs more of. In fact i'm going to speak at our school committee meeting tonight on pulling our collective shit together so we stop raising kids who cant cope. My argument took a solid month to pull together but I believe it will be effective. Thats my gift to society this month.
Its interesting because I often have the exact same thoughts about my engineer husband when im all worked up about something and he remains cool as a cucumber... "dont you even care about the world?" I say as I look at him like he's a vapid Barbie doll ...and then I remember that his engineering project is going to make lives better for millions and millions of people in 5-10 years. If he was leaning into his outrage about whats happening in front of him all the time he couldnt do his job.
So I think at the end of the day most of us do what we can and give what we can, when and how we are able, but the different ways in which we do it can look like apathy when its really just focus.
Food for thought anyway 😊
This is such a great question! You want to go back to very basic conversation skills. Instead of thinking about what you want to tell the other person (or in your case, what you're trying to get away from telling the other person), think about what new and interesting things you can learn about and from the other person. Start creating a collection of open ended questions that you can ask the other person to get them talking about interesting things that relate to them that have nothing to do with gender. For example, questions like: what are you looking forward to doing in the next few weeks? Are there any books you're looking forward to reading? Is there anything you wish you could change about how your week has been going? Basically you want to ask open ended questions that get the person talking about them self and their interests and then finding ways that you can ask more questions and even find ways to relate to their answers and find common ground to further discuss. But I think the biggest help might be to think about how you can build conversations around learning more about other people and what's going on in their lives.
Side note: I'm looking forward to what you have to write on AGPgate, but I'm also really ready for the focus on what he wore and if he should have worn it to be done because there are much more important things I think we need to be good faith discussing about Phil. I don't care what he was wearing at Genspect. My concern is that he has so quickly become seen as an expert in AGP, including by people like Blanchard and Bailey, with people promoting his book as an educational tool and inviting him to speak at professional conferences (and I don't mean Genspect. He wasn't a presenter there. I'm referring to a Professional sex researcher conference earlier this year where he presented). There is too much weight and credulity being given to everything he says because he's so willing and open to talk about his own AGP. I'm not saying that he doesn't have insights to add to the general body of knowledge on AGP, he most certainly does because of how much time he has spent reading the literature and thinking about his own experiences, but I'm concerned by how many people, including thoughtful therapists and academic researchers, are branding him as some sort of expert. Phil's background is an engineering and physics and he is hyper focused on trans-everything (gender, race, age, etc), his personal pet theories, his redefining of key terms (as Lisa noted in her interview with him), and his insistence he's got AAP and the female experience of it figured out. But he does not have the background knowledge or expertise in areas like psychology, developmental disorders such as autism and ADHD, and child and adolescent development to be making the kinds of sweeping statements and claims that he's making with such certainty. (I've also seen him make some statements that show he is profoundly ignorant about how adolescent girls experience puberty and the changes in their bodies) His claims, especially about adolescent females and ROGD, really show his personal biases and lack of knowledge and extremely relevant areas. I was especially bothered by how he got onto Michelle Alleva's brilliant and very thoughtful Twitter post where she shared her graphic representation of how so many of the things she used to believe "proved" she was trans were actually things related to her autism, her mental health issues, or were just completely inaccurate understandings of things. The way he responded to her by insisting that what she saw as her autistic traits we're still in his opinion signs of AAP showed a concerning unwillingness to consider other points of view and an inappropriate forcing of his opinions on her personal understanding of herself.
He acknowledges that J Michael Bailey thinks he is too "bullish" about AAP, but the researchers keep giving him a platform and amplifying his messages. Still isn't just another experienced sex researcher for Bailey to agree or disagree with and debate. He's not a researcher and he doesn't have relevant background knowledge to be making the claims he is. He is also basing a lot of his ideas and theories on his own personal experiences and his own beliefs about himself, which may or may not even be fully accurate. This is a really bad way to do research and I don't understand why he's being held up as such an expert. Should we listen to him? Of course. I'm sure he has a lot of experiences and insight he can bring to this bigger issue of understanding what a GP is and how to best help these young men. But everything he is saying needs to be put in a better perspective and stop being seen as expert or gospel truth.
I don't like naming and targeting Phil specifically because I am concerned about how he's handling all this attention and criticism being focused on him right now. But he is putting himself out there as an expert and other people who are actually experts are amplifying his theories and potentially integrating them into their own practices. As a result I think there needs to be some thoughtful, good faith critiques of his work. That dress and where he wears it are a distraction from a more important issue with him that needs to be addressed
I did not realize he was being put forward as "the voice" that way. I think his work is best understood as a personal (and *personalized*) understanding of the condition, and related ones. It's one person's opinion, even if it's an encyclopedic 700+ page opinion with footnotes. I value it from that perspective, and think he has a lot of interesting ways of thinking about these various (connected?) issues, but he can really only speak for himself. He goes out on many limbs in that book, and I even appreciate that, but in the end, several of his assertions are as "faith-based" as gender ideology itself. I think it will actually reduce the impact of his book if they put too much pressure on it to hold up for everyone--the thing that makes me like it is it's his extremely personal take.
And for sure, the sections of the book where he focused on AAP were the ones where the limb he was going out on was particularly long and thin.
He strikes me as severely autistic and unable to understand basic theory of mind. So he thinks the disordered way his personal, subjective sexuality developed is “innate” and therefore assumes everyone else must be either “autosexual” or whatever word he came up for for not that. Just like trans people with “cis vs trans.” He’s setting up these arbitrary frameworks for all of human sexuality based on his weird fetishes. Like sure, I could make up terms for someone who is sexually aroused by matchbooks and call it “matchbooksexuality” and profess that everyone is either turned on by matchbooks or turned on in the absence of matchbooks...but I don’t do that bc I’m not insane. Why people validate him is beyond me.
Great comment! I am flabbergasted that so many GC people are willing to do with men like Phil what so many doctors, clinicians, etc did with other gender dysphoric/trans people in the first place: let people with severe psychologically, behavioral, emotional, developmental, and personality issues “drive the bus.” This random man with a self-professed fetish is supposed to be an expert on what, exactly? Sexuality/sexual disorders/sexual offending? Psychology? Human development? Autism and other developmental disorders? He’s just making random stuff up based on what he wants to be true for himself/what feels right. He’s also trans, too, bc he believes men with his “sexual orientation” (notice how he just changed the very definition of sexual orientation to justify his disordered behavior) have a “female essence”...so it’s just more bizarre nonsense coming from a person who harms themselves (in this case, Phil harms himself not medically buy socially) and others (subjecting people to his public fetish is sex offending, which is harm). And women get the same old bs: you’re hysterical, be nice, you’re hurting yourself by not accepting your “allies.” Some autistic men who develop these sexual disorders brand themselves “transwomen” and some brand themselves “autosexuals.” Notice how both agree on their fundamental premise that they shouldn’t be/aren’t responsible for their sexual behaviors and choices.
Since meeting him and attesting to his non-creepiness, I have tried to verify some claims about who Phil is -- such as, where did he get his alleged background in engineering and physics? I have no desire to "out" him, and I do think he contributes something of value to the gender conversation. Still, I am leery of characterizing his views as scientific or authoritative.
I don't feel like he deserves all the personal attacks he's getting. There are ways to discuss even the dress issue that respect all the different perspectives people bring - and isn't Genspect about bringing different perspectives together and finding respectful ways to talk about common goals and concerns? - that don't involve cruelty, name calling, or accusations of inner motives and states we don't know about an individual (and I say that as someone who has not worked through my own thoughts and feelings about what it means for a self-proclaimed AGP to publicly wear clothes that are instruments for their private activities). But for me, the dress is a distraction. I'd rather have good faith, respectful conversations and debates about his theories and how they are being understood or platformed. It was right for Genspect to take down the post with the picture of him and Laura NOT because of the dress, but because it implied an endorsement of the book without exploring many of its legit critiques, some of which are in direct conflict with Genspect, like their views on medicalization. And speaking of that picture, it wasn't just the way Phil was talked about that bothered me. I was dismayed at how some defenders of the picture spoke to people who expressed good faith, non personal attack concerns as well as the awful way Laura was treated.
I see he just posted a long thread explaining why he thinks it's reasonable to medicalize children but mitigate harm by skipping puberty blockers and putting them directly on cross-sex hormones. Then he seems to enjoy calling out the "GCs" who are "popping off" in response. He provided no science or evidence for his "proposal."
https://twitter.com/autogynephilic/status/1724488015526203482
You're platforming the AGP, please stop.
Phil certainly put the cat among the pigeons from the various responses I read on X & other sources; Genspect’s credibility was seriously compromised in some quarters. However, I hope the furore over him will soon die down. We must not lose sight of the serious work that’s being done.
It basically boils down to them offering free tickets to certain people and everyone else paying a lot for a ticket $550+ not including airfare etc. it’s a big deal for parents, especially moms. It would have been easy to say “Phil wear something non-fetishy if you want a free ticket.
Then publishing the photos on Twitter was tome deaf...then having a bunch of men (the James Lindseys) blaming this on feminists is the worst PR. They just need some good PR. I don’t want friends breaking apart over this. It’s just evidence that social media is very unhealthy.
I really hope it’s not true that had Detransioners pay their own way (who knows what to believe at this point). But that would be end of Genspect if that’s true.
Tome Deaf bc he was selling his tome -
* people who have detransitioned.
Arggh, he didn't put himself out there, you all who can't stop naming him did. Just please stop talking about him especially by name. He probably wanked 3 times reading your post.
My "like" is for the first paragraph. I don't know anything about the rest of your comment, so I'm not judging that in any way. As someone who is good at chatting up strangers, I think your advice about how to get people talking is right on.
That said, I have to admit that while I do well at chatting up strangers and in one-on-one conversations with friends and family, I am at a loss when it comes to chatting up anyone during family gatherings or in small groups of friends. The techniques I've used on strangers don't seem to work in small groups.
Dear Lisa: first off, I want to send further wishes for your full recovery and lots and lots of happiness in this new phase of your life. I sure do empathize with the question you raise, and with much less cause, as, while I read and think about this a good bit, and write public officials when there is need, I have nothing like the constant drumbeat of sorrow your daily work brings to you. J and I verbally commit to ourselves before meeting with friends, “this time, we will not bring this up, and just have a pleasant evening. And if someone else brings it up, we vow to listen more than talk, and carefully weigh in with just a fact or two, a la Helen Joyce’s advice, just say one thing, then let it go.
Well, I cannot begin to count the number of times we have each broken that promise! It’s so hard to be so critically aware how many people are hurting, and at the same time to realize so many people, particularly on our side of the aisle, remain in the dark, and with bad information, to boot. I will say this, when we have succeeded, it has been helpful to us, just to have a breather from it all, too. So, yes, cherish the friends you care about, try to give yourself a break and set this aside for a bit. . . . though I confess, even then, we can’t help but look for an opening, and then try our best to tread lightly with real information. We have found that’s been satisfying too, for sometimes friends do actually listen and think and begin to understand why this is all so awful and needs to change.
Well, this is, I’m afraid, a bit stream of consciousness, so I’ll stop. Thank you for all you do, all you are, and most of all for your very big heart.
Hi Lisa (and everyone else) -
Some thoughts:
1. It is hard for me to turn off the tap, too. I'm getting more skilled at asking the other person questions unrelated to gender and doing long listening.
2. I remind myself that I am not going to change anyone's mind by ranting. Waiting for the right opportunity to plant a seed is challenging.
3. I try to see where the other person is trying to make connections and take them there. It's OK if we are avoiding the elephant in the room if we are making connections in other ways.
It's kind of an adaptation of advice I heard from Lisa Marchiano where staying connected to your child is really the primary goal and to not make everything about the fraught subject. That said, it's hard to let go.
Hope you can take the time you need to recovery from surgery. It will take as long as it needs to take. Be well.
This comes up for me ALL THE TIME in my lovely yoga world. Most people in this circle are well-intentioned in blindly practicing "inclusion" (as I did before ROGD tore my child's mental health apart). The current language of inclusion is a simple set of rules, while the multifaceted paths to ROGD, social contagion, teen body hatred and control, etc, etc, etc, is complex, nuanced, and difficult to discuss.
So I usually just leave it alone.
But, when I'm asked to introduce myself with my preferred pronouns, I don't. I politely give my name and credentials, smile kindly, and pass it to the next person. I notice that sometimes this seems to give others permission to do the same. It's a small gesture, but it indicates that not everyone is actually comfortable with "the rules".
Usually I don't mention anything about gender anymore in social settings. As an ROGD parent, I became used to the alienation and lack of understanding, the oversimplified catch phrases people use without any knowledge of the devastating consequences (healthcare for trans kids - who would deny that?!). Occasionally, if I feel like there's a window of nuance open, I'll mention that I support people who identify as trans but am concerned about how many teenage females are wearing tight chest binders and how that affects their breathing and nervous systems ( yoga people KNOW the importance of unrestricted breathing). I might mention that my child has at least 10 classmates who do this every day. Maybe it plants a seed in those who already wonder...
My daughter - who spent nearly 2 years trans identified - is now 15, desisted and happy to be a girl. She jokes about when she used to be an "emo boy" and how she simply realized that "boobs are great!". Of course it wasn't that simple for her and she knows it - she also lost friends, missed opportunities, and bears self harm scars from that era of body hatred. But I think she's on to something with her lighthearted technique. She's taking away the power of the claim that all trans kids should be transitioned, confirming that it CAN INDEED be a phase, and essentially brushing it off her shoulder like an old boyfriend, "Thank u, Next!".
Rakimsa, I really appreciate your comment, as a fellow yoga instructor. I also immediately stated I was "inclusive" in various ways (on my website, eg). But then as I learned about the realities of what this means, and ROGD, etc., I immediately removed any mentions of inclusivity or affirming from my website, email signature, etc. I think many in the yoga community as well as therapists (which I am) and other helping professions, with the most positive intentions immediately say, of course I am affirming and want to promote inclusivity! But we don't know what we don't know - until we start to learn about what is really going on and as you say, how nuanced it is. At one of the addictions treatment centers where I work, recently an adult participant in a group I lead shared with me privately that as a bisexual 25-year-old man, he HATES how all of the groups and other situations in the treatment context begin with everyone being encouraged to state their pronouns. He is very thankful that I don't even mention pronouns - apparently I am the only therapist who doesn't. He said that he actually feels that pronoun statements engender exclusion and are performative. Anyway, I am so happy to hear how your daughter is doing and love her sense of humor and courage. She and you inspire me!
Oh thank you Michele! I so appreciate that! And I know people like us - who DO care about inclusivity but have deeper knowledge about the complexity of gender issues - are growing in number. We're the ones quietly not asking for, or offering, pronouns.... 💜
I don't have time for a long reply but wanted you to know I read you're article and these comments. I too am isolated, feel like a pariah in my communities for my GC concerns. I see the situation with tomboys, teenage girls as such an emergency globally; yet my lesbian friends couldn't care less.. my partner and I created a series of 6 discussions in our BLAST MeetUp of florid, Palm beach county, partially too meet like minded women, and no one is signing up
Topics for first 6 meetings
1. Definitions & Women in Sports NOV
2. Lesbian Erasure, Sex Not Gender, Dec
3. Threats to children (talking to family, friends) Jan
4. Loss of women’s rights under law, censorship Feb
5. GC HEROES, Kellie Jay Keen, JK Rowling; etc... Mar
6. How to talk to others Apr
Women aren't interested ugh! I have no friends anymore
Etana in Florida
But we are reading your article & you never know the connections you might be making. For example, I live in England 🏴 & the fight is just as fierce over here. I’m constantly astonished at the sheer numbers of people who have yet to be peaked about trans issues. Some class actions have already begun & there’ll be many more to follow. I’m convinced that the tide is turning. Good luck in your efforts & do take a break now & then. Sending love, sister. X
Hang in there. It may take time. It is hard for lesbians to connect these days, what with the decline in lesbian media, gathering places, bookstores, etc.
Great question, Lisa! I was thinking about it the other day when I was hanging out with relatives and realized that I have very little to talk about aside from my two main concerns: gender and education, and more specifically how bad education has become in Ontario where I live. I became so engrossed in these issues that I haven't actually read or listened to anything about anything else! So I decided to start actively broadening my interests - watch some shows/movies, maybe read about some historical period about which I know very little. I have yet to act on this, but the intention is there.
I hope you have a speedy and restful recovery!
Thank you for all you do Lisa, and I wish for you a good recovery. Take time and take care of yourself.
About your question.
One thing I have struggled with is that this gender issue was the issue that opened my eyes to many weaknesses of "my side." So many of my social groups are all progressive and we have always spent a certain amount of time talking about politics, the world etc etc. And now I distrust so much coming from my side. If my people fell for this gender woo and literally aren't seeing the harm caused, the illogical of it all - how can I trust them on other issues? It has made me question so much. So it isn't only the gender issue I feel "off" about right now. I want to question everything. Is my side's interpretation or ideas for solutions correct about anything? Another issue that mirrors it a lot is the controversy about teaching reading (the podcast "Sold a Story" highlighted this). So many people just went along with something that wasn't making sense and was actually harming those it was supposed to help.
So - I hold back on many issues right now. I'm trying to work on a more passive face and a "huh, interesting" type response. Then divert to non political topics.
Yes to everything you just said here. As a former elementary teacher, I was "Sold a Story" in grad school in the late 90's and proceeded to teach children to read without phonics. It wasn't until my own child was diagnosed with dyslexia that I learned all about the importance of systematic phonetic instruction for all children, but especially those who struggle to read. I am still stung with guilt over this 15 years later.
Now, the same child is struggling through ROGD, I feel like the blinders have been pulled from my eyes and I want everyone to see what I see.
So, after two years of talking all of my amazingly smart, liberal friend's ears off about it and not seeing much change in their thinking, I am trying to stick with other topics. I have to hope that I have at least caused them to question a bit more and if a friend of their's mentions this is happening with their child, maybe they will pause and send them my way rather than just going with "gender affirming care".
I make a pact with my husband that I will not stray onto this topic in polite company. But usually after one glass of wine I remember that if I don't speak up about it, who will? So, round and round I go until more people wake up.
Wow - one of the things that stood out for me from that podcast is the guilt the teachers felt. Truly heartbreaking.
I hear you about talking to friends. I do tiptoe about the issue and rarely (but occasionally) kind of "go off" to friends I know who will be ok with it (but not quite agreeing with me). That is funny what you said about your husband. Mine just knows this issue (gender) really gets me fired up (it wasn't in my family, but my daughter dated a trans boy (natal female) in highschool, and had a trans kid in her theater program which got me looking into how this could be statistically possible....which opened my eyes to all of this) and he rolls his eyes (but agrees with me) but hopes I won't spend too much time ranting.
I hope your child gets through this. I can't imagine being a parent. Although, it does seem to me that compared to just a couple years ago there are more resources and ways to find others to talk to are way better than they were.
Hugs and support to you.
Thank you! I love to see support from someone other than a parent in the midst of this. Maybe the tide is turning.
I've often wondered how I could "signal" to the world (acquaintances or others) that I would be an understanding ear if they are in this situation and aren't comfortable with the affirmation only that is happening. I know most people in my circles would be under a great deal of pressure to comply and I want people to know there are others in their midst who would be of support. Not sure how to do that.
Yesterday I shared an article with my one 30-something relative who agrees with me entirely on the gender issues. Your Substack has been helpful in her journey, as it has for so many Lisa. The article I sent wasn't about gender, it was about Israel, Bari Weiss speaking to the Federalist Society. My relative is heterodox on gender, but has hated Bari since she left the NYT and discounts that anything remotely illuminating could be connected to the Federalist Society. (I mean, I used to do so too! Now I don't automatically disregard a point of view just because it comes from the "wrong" place.) I got a pretty sharp reply responding with language about colonization and saying she couldn't listen to more than a few minutes of it and how could she respect anything from the Federalist Society. I'd obviously irritated her greatly. It's so hard to talk about these subjects that are so polarized--and where a whole generation has been thoroughly indoctrinated with the "right" way to think about a number of subjects--gender, race, and certainly Israel. I'd assumed an openness to some frames about Israel that I should not have assumed. She was right--this was not the best link to send her. I have dived deep into all kinds of media around Israel, partly because I have a good friend who lives on one of the kibbutzim near the Gaza border who has been living through a nightmare. I hear heartbreaking stories from her every day, just like you hear heartbreaking stories about how gender ideology has harmed people. But like with gender, there is a learning curve progressives must go through to see the picture clearly. At least clearly from my point of view. It's a process.
I bring all this up not to hash out views about Israel, but because this prickly reply reminded me to just chill out, express love, back up. I've had a good deal of practice in this with my friends over the past few years with gender. I was glad she was honest, and told her that. I don't need to talk to her about Israel, or if I want her to understand how I am seeing things and what I am thinking I need to be much, MUCH more mindful about what I share with her. Unlike with gender, there is plenty of interesting and varied deep-dive coverage about Israel in the New York Times after all.
When I started trying to communicate with my friends about gender, I had too much zeal. I think a lot of us relate to that. Some got closed off, seemingly forever. I am still sad about them. I have some amazing friends, who still do not agree with me about gender, but still want to be my friends. Their skillful, loving friending is part of the reason we are still friends, and part of it is my own approach. These have taught me to talk about other things, connect on other things, but now and again if I feel something just might get through, I will share it. This issue is important to me and part of who I am, so it is inauthentic and outside my concept of friendship to always avoid it. It's much harder for you Lisa because this is actually your job. I'm not sure how that can work, but I'm pretty sure you can't avoid the topic entirely with some of them. But you don't have to talk about it as much, even if they bring it up. Recently one of my friends who disagrees with me brought it up and I realized I just couldn't go there in that moment, so I said so. Same with you--even more so. You are not "on the job" 24/7. There are some great suggestions in these comments. Another way to think about it is that these people you love keep you honest and help you keep defining your path in life. They are part of you. Life is NOT all about fighting gender ideology and fixing this terrible wrong. You don't have a monopoly on the truth either, which I know you know. There are many terrible wrongs in the world, and we cannot be fighting all the time. Life is precious and short and love matters the most. Enjoy the small and beautiful gifts with your friends where you can find them. Sending you good healing vibes!
I can relate to wanting to break through to others on both the topics of gender and Israel--in my case, mainly to my daughters. But it never goes well. Thanks to Elizabeth and everyone else for the reminders that less in this area is generally more.
Dear Lisa, you are suffering post-surgical trauma & you need to rest. I understand that your brain can be racing even though your body feels weak. I speak from experience as someone who’s had several major surgeries & know something about how you might be feeling. Perhaps you might try a bit of mindfulness whilst your body is healing. I can’t say much more than that since I don’t know about your particular circumstances. I’d like very much to thank you for the work you do & know that it’s appreciated. Love from your sister in England 🏴.
Hey! First, Lisa, thank you for your tireless work on this issue!!!!
Second, parents on here: Anone have a gender dysphoric teen with autism? My MTF was just diagnosed with autism, Level 1 ("high functioning"). My reaction is basically, Of course. This explains everything. His reponse is, This changes nothing. They are starting college in the fall (not sure where yet). I'm just wodnering if anyone has any wisdom to share about ASD and gender vis a vis teens and young adults. Oooof.
Sheryl, I assume you've seen Benjamin Boyce's lovely interview with an autistic desisted college student and his father, but just in case, I'll link it here. It's such a touchy subject--Christina Buttons gave a great presentation on autism and gender at the Genspect conference and how life-changing it was for her to finally get a diagnosis at 30ish, but it seems to me that adolescents are as likely to be touchy and defensive about the diagnosis being "the answer" as they are to welcome the opportunity for help and self-awareness. I think it would be worth getting some personal or family counseling on how to lower conflicts around it. Benjamin Boyce on Gender and Autism: https://youtu.be/FoEWbVviOpk?si=1IU-biVE9WPhWlRA
YES. We haven't said a word about ASD being a "cause" of their trans beliefs, but they seem to be ready for the argument already. sigh. luckily, we have a great therapist that our kid likes, who is non-affirming but very open and "cool."
I’ve been working with Dr. Edwards-Leeper for a year and she is trained to work with this group of kids and has said that sometimes getting an autism diagnosis from a Dr can help the family discuss that being a good reason for gender confusion and if you get the right psychologist they can work with the autism diagnosis as a catalyst to resolve the GD issues which go hand in hand which I’m just starting to learn about that. I just wanted to mention that bc she does include parents of young adults in these discussions and goes over seriousness of side effects of cross sex hormones. So much so that my daughter changed her mind and got annoyed that she told her how serious these drugs are regularly.
my son fits that profile. He's "twice gifted". That is: extremely high IQ coupled with sensory processing disorder & slow processing speed (which manifests with autism-like social awkwardness). He has estranged himself from family following induction into trans movement in first semester of college during COVID.
Do I have any advice for you? First: those with autism have "black & white" thinking. This rigidity helps them maintain a sense of order amidst our fluid & chaotic world. So, try to remain in the "white" zone. That is: try very much to remain within your child's trusted cohort. This will be difficult because trans ideology teaches that parents are hateful & completely disposable. But try, for your child's sake as much as your own.
Second: college could easily radicalize your child, pushing him deeper into the trans world. Expect this. ... How to guard against it? Many recommend not sending such a child to college, or at least keeping them at a college close to home. ...
Clearly I failed. I was flying blind. Bottom line: love you child & Hold him close.
You did NOT fail. We're all building the plane while we're flying it! And lord, you just described my kid. I love how you expressed it, staying in the white zone! That's perfect. And yeah, we are often considered villains in this story. So frustrating. The other day, I was talking to him about something he was unhappy about and I said, "I don't expect you to love me right now. It's ok. I have enough love for both of us."
Huge issues for those with autism or for highly intelligent eccentric people with social issues in my experience:
black and white thinking (the root of many mental illnesses). Does he have B&W thinking about women and men’s behaviors? “Cis people don’t think this, therefore I must be trans” Etc. If so, challenge this. This is illogical thinking.
Sensory processing issues (being grossed out or overwhelmed by the sensory elements of your body like skin, hair, genitals, etc doesn’t mean you’re trans. It means you have sensory processing issues. (Which I think can actually affect the development of body dysmorphia).
Sexuality issues (related to sensory processing issues- people can learn to masturbate in weird ways or not masturbate at all bc they literally can’t handle the sensory elements of touching that part of their body) can arise. Masturbation can become compulsive for autistic people (a self soothing or stimming tool) or sexuality develops later or one can’t see themselves being able to get close emotional/socially/physically with another to have sex.
Alexithymia- or “emotion blindness” is common in autistic people. Having a crush on someone and not understanding what you feel at all or even that you feel anything, etc. Deep confusion about sexuality or other social dynamics can occur from this.
Over-intellectualization. This is HUGE for people who are highly intelligent but not yet wise. If there are ANY bugs or flaws in your logic, you can follow your logic to its rational conclusion and end up in a thoroughly non-logical place without even realizing that you have been led astray by an error early on. Highly intelligent, systematic thinkers can ironically make GIGANTIC errors of logic or decision making. I view it like autoimmune disorders: the stronger your immune system, the less likely you are to get sick from viruses or infections, but also the more likely you are to develop an autoimmune disorder (the system is so strong it takes itself down). Over intellectualization can cripple the health, happiness, and development of intelligent people. To quote Dumbledore from Harry Potter: “I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, being- forgive me- rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger.”
I’m a parent of an ROGD girl. This has occupied my thought nearly 24/7 for the last 4 years, keeping me awake at night, making it hard to concentrate. But I’m getting better at being ok, even if I’m not ok with that.
For me, a hobby has helped. I bought a classic car and am currently restoring it. Great topic of conversation. I also read lots of fiction. Both of these things help keep my mind off of the topic and give me other things to talk to people about.
I’m also the mom of a ROGD girl, in this mess for 4 years! I only talk about these issues with people I know think as I do. Too many disappointments in the past few years have made me cautious and I’m also exhausted by the topic. My local support group chapter of Parents of ROGD Kids is my place to talk about it.
Random postings:
Here are some compiled videos from the conference held this September in Santa Fe titled: "Sex/Gender Differences: The Big Conversation." I did not attend but eavesdropped here and there via zoom.
https://santafeboys.org/recordings-of-the-big-conversation/
And then there was this sad story which I'm sure many of you read.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/12/us/alabama-mayor-suicide-smiths-station.html
There's a lot of angles to this story but one I'd like to emphasize is how the internet has seemingly normalized AGP behaviors to the point where Mr. Copeland felt comfortable sharing his femme persona on social media. It probably didn't seem to him as though he were transgressing because there's an ocean of people like him doing the same thing. My point here is not to vilify this poor guy but to point out that, for many like Mr. Copeland, the internet has become an alternate, more worldly universe where the illusion of societal acceptance prevails. Mr. Copeland's mistake was assuming that alternate world extended to his tiny Alabama community.
I'm probably going to be the lone troublemaker here who thinks that it's crucial for you NOT to turn off the tap, not to self-censor. Of course you don't want to be overbearing or tedious, but I can't see you being either of those. In the midst of this social and medical insanity I think it's crucial to keep the conversation going, to raise awareness in people who haven't been paying attention.
Part of my reason for saying this is that I'm too good at self-censoring. I'm too afraid of damaging fragile relationships or getting into unpleasant discussions. I admire those of you who aren't afraid to introduce uncomfortable topics and don't take it personally when someone pushes back on what you're saying. One reason I have supported your work is that you so boldly go where wimps like me, who are less articulate and less sure of ourselves, rarely have the courage to go.
If you're intent on turning off the tap, I hope that you're doing it for the reasons you stated. If you're sure that the person you're talking to really doesn't care about your work or the topic of gender, then by all means, avoid the topic. If in fact it's you who are tired of talking about it, then maybe you need a break!
But Lisa, I’M one of the traumatized whose stories you hear. You are like a priest. It has become your life’s work. However, meditatively, even priests have to be above the fray sometimes when other folks can’t/won’t yet have the knowing. It’s like Joan of Arc, also, hearing and knowing things that have a wider mission attached even though others don’t understand.
I’m glad you are acknowledging healing from surgery has surprised you in that it takes time to heal. Feel better soon. And that’s an incredible quote from the surgeon.
Thank you for the Tuesday Open Thread. Much appreciated to see everyone’s responses and thoughts.
PS (I also have to have a surgery in February 2024. Gulp.)
Dear Lisa and fellow readers,
I'm wishing you courage and strength for a strong recovery.
For myself, "turning off the tap" often involves biting my tongue (pretty much literally) and deep breathing. Then I consciously turn my attention to other topics and toward what the other person is feeling/expressing.
On another topic: the recent news flurry about the suicide of the small town Alabama mayor & Baptist preacher, Bubba Copeland, had me transfixed this weekend. I wrote a short opinion piece on what's wrong with the journalists' representation of the story, but now I'm not sure what to do with the essay. This comes at a difficult time for you, but one person did recommend that you might be interested in it.
I read all about it in the middle of the night last night. Awful.
if you'd like to see my short op-ed let me know how to send it to you. I guess I could paste it in a response but email would be better.
Hi, all: I know some here have addressed the issue that arose re Genspect. I have hesitated to weigh in, as I was not there, but I saw another tweet today that concerned me, this one from James Lindsay, who I gather spoke at the conference, and I felt I had an obligation to speak up. I want to note at the outset that I do respect the concerns raised by several women, which I think Heather Heyring put very well in her Substack piece on the incident: “Even if it is true that any particular man will not behave in a predatory way to women, the public display of fetish opens up doors to predators who would. We had a social contract that did a good job of keeping women safe. Public display of fetish begins to dismantle that contract.”
That said, I tend to think enough ink has been spilled on the person himself. At this point what concerns me more is some of the commentary on Twitter in response to the very valid concerns some women raised. Here is Lindsay’s comment today, together with his Twitter handle:
James Lindsay, manspreading into feminist angst
@ConceptualJames
Dumb feminist hags think they can struggle me. They don't get it. I don't just not care about them. I don't respect them. I don't like them. They're powerless over me. It's a joke and fun for me to mock and expose.
At a minimum, comments like this show bad judgment and a lack of professionalism, as well as having the potential to undermine the goal all of us are trying so hard to achieve. Particularly as Genspect has done and is doing so much good work, and has profiled so many people I admire, I hope this behavior will not be brushed aside and will be taken seriously.
I suppose this is why I’m not on Twitter....
Very wise.
Why does anyone trust Phil Illy? Because he wrote a book? Because he purports to be honest about his condition? Because he gave interviews? I don't trust him, not one little bit.
As a « different » person, most of the things I am interested in and passionate about aren’t interesting to anyone around me. I have to refrain from talking about mostly everything with them. Because of that, I am completely isolated and lonely. This is not any helpful for you, but I would say, just find a passion. I recently started playing the bass, at 41, and I got super interested and it shifted my attention to less controversial and disturbing topics ( gender, drag queens, socialism, pollution, overpopulation). It rejuvenates the discourse when you shift your gaze and people are less... scared.
Lisa, wishing you a speedy and full recovery.
Hope healing is thorough for you Lisa. I have enjoyed reading your stack since I was introduced to it a few months ago with the onset of working with PARENTS & FAMILY of ROGD kids & teens. This is an easy space to come to to learn & be cognizant of what is transpiring in genderland currently. I continue to try & reach parents/family members in MARYLAND who may be suffering, looking for counseling/support through the gendermaze. Of course we know, gender is a misguided human construct based on judgements & stereotypes (thanks John M). I can be found on Psychology Today & GETA. I know you're out there...I'm looking for you too.
Great question. I try to remember (sometimes successfully) that each of us only has mental spece for one issue and I don't appreciate being judged for not caring (deeply) about their issue.
I try to keep a list of some things (either in my mind or on paper) that I find interesting that are not gender related so I can pull those things out when I'm with people who don't want to talk about the gender stuff. This works a large part of the time. It has also helped me remember and refocus on some other things in life that matters to me outside the gender space. Sometimes these other things seem really trivial and it takes work to keep the conversation from straying. But I have found that this approach has preserved some of my strained friendships. And has probably helped preserve some of my own sanity as well. My other technique is that when I have a burning thought or article that I catch myself gearing up to share with the disinterested folks, I just stop mid-text, delete and then instead send it to one of my friends that are in the "gender headspace." This helps as well!
It is likely that you are suffering from secondary (if not primary) PTSD. Check out the EVERY MEMORY DESERVES RESPECT book and consider some EMDR therapy if you haven’t already. It’s an efficient way to shift trauma reactions and allow for a more grounded, balanced life experience. We need to sort out what we can and cannot change, how much any one person can accomplish, and how to restore ourselves to live with more effectiveness and joy in the midst of personal and social challenges beyond our maladaptive trauma responses.
A few random thoughts in response to your question ...
*Not spending time with people with whom we disagree fuels the polarization that is rampant in our country.
*If they are friends, maybe you could just put it out there ... "I'm struggling to leave my work/passion behind. Do you guys have thoughts about that?"
*I understand what some have said about spreading the word - and I think this is so VERY important! But, there is also value in realizing - sometimes - that not everyone wants to hear it or that "spreading" isn't appropriate at this time.
*As a parent, I've come to realize that you may not be the person that these people will be able to hear. In other words, my children can't hear what I'm saying - but they can get the exact same message loudly and clearly from someone else!