<<... the preschool teacher had noted James preferred “boy toys.”>> Are you kidding?! I'm not around preschoolers now, but I'd have thought we had long since abandoned rigid sex typing of their toys and compelling their compliance with our rules. This episode is an example of exactly what I've long feared, namely, hip, slick, and cool parents who aren't supporting or affirming but actually encouraging (tantamount to compelling, in my opinion) a child's supposed gender nonconformity. Has the tragic outcome of the experiments with"social transition" on David Reimer and his twin been forgotten?
Yes, as a retired Pre-K and K teacher, we are not trained to inculcate sex stereotypes in the classroom. This is retcon and a con. These newly certified ideologues in classrooms also think teaching math is "colonialist."
The diagnosis for gender dysphoria for children has a requirement of a certain number of symptoms. One of the symptoms is playing with toys of the opposite sex. Yes. Unbelievable.
Only 6 years old. Need I say more? I cannot believe that’s it’s come to this. This little girl is only 6 years old. She should not even be thinking about gender issues. She should be happy, carefree and playing with toys. In my book, what this mother is doing to this child is nothing short of child abuse. To refuse this child her grandmother’s love is wrong. A grandmother who has been part of this child’s life since birth. What do you think that teaches this little girl?? What do you think this little girl is feeling about losing her grandmother so abruptly and not even being allowed to say goodbye??!! Trust me, this child will pay the price and her mental health will suffer. This world has gone crazy! All these “study’s” have only begun. We have no concrete evidence of consequences yet. And when we do, can we please compare them to all the other study’s on lost broken children that have nothing to do with gender. I dare you to. Because breaking up families over gender is ridiculous. Society has simply created a new way to abuse children. And calling it legal! Tragic.
Heartbreaking.... I find the conflation of gay and trans frustrating. This seems purposeful by the trans activists. If you question the child’s gender proclamations you are branded anti LGBTQetc. I think the cowardly MD is disgraceful! Where are all of the happy, well adjusted trans-adults?. Shouldn’t we be seeing happy, healthy trans engineers, nurses, computer programmers etc.?
The conflation of gay and trans is indeed intentional, in fact, a crucial part of the political and legal strategy developed by the London based international law firm, Denton.
The document itself has been removed from both the firm's and the client's web sites. Fortunately, it was preserved by some interested people. You can find it here:
For me the most alarming recommendations clearly are suggesting fastening the trans movement as a parasite on the movement for gay equality.
<< 6.Use human rights as a campaign point
Based on our research, human rights arguments have been instrumental to the success of several campaigns for more progressive gender recognition laws....
7. Tie your campaign to more popular reform
In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of
protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support. >>
As a gay man, I see the enthusiasm of health care professionals for medical transition of children as being a revival of conversion therapy but in a far more dangerous and irreversible way. It's a path facilitated by widespread ignorance of the difference between sexual orientation and identification. Unfortunately, the public backlash against the more preposterous policies of the radical trans ideologues does not exempt the advances in gay equality.
Addendum 11/23/2023
The Spectator article is behind the paywall but I've found a copy that isn't. Sorry for any inconveniences. Thanks, Google.
But we don’t hear from any of them. I would think at least a few would come out and say how they benefitted. There is a giant fight going on and they aren’t lending their voice in support of medical and social transition!?!?
Done. Actually, I realize I had I listened to you with Stephanie Winn. And yes, you seem like a very together and grounded person. I thought what you had to say was important. I think most of us are concerned with the ROGD that covers up the other mental health issues in adolescence and also seems to lead to family estrangement. I'm not anti-trangenderism when it is the real thing. I am pro years of exploration to come to the correct diagnosis.
Those certainly are concerning issues. I also support ample exploration. Seven years passed between when I realized I was trans and the initiation of cross-sex hormones.
This is utterly heartbreaking. Thank you, Lisa, for reaching so deeply into these issues and writing about them with such empathy and eloquence.
I have just learned, BTW, via Leor Sapir, that there is what looks to be an extremely bad proposed federal foster care regulation on which comments are due 11/28. Here’s the information I have:
I have submitted a comment. Here is the text. I urge everyone to do so. It’s best to write in your own words, though feel free to use what I’ve written as a springboard. You don't need to be an expert, though all here most likely are:
I write as a staunch Democrat and also a lesbian, which I indicate so there can be no mistake about my perspective, to beg of you not to proceed with this change in regulations until you have fully acquainted yourself with the harms that are being caused by inappropriately applied "gender affirming care." Foster children are at particular risk for confusion about their sex and sexuality and can easily be swept into thinking they are born in the wrong body, when the cause, if examined properly through thoughtful mental health therapy, may likely lie elsewhere.
As just one example, the proposed regulations state, with regard to prospective foster parents, "For example, to be considered a safe and appropriate placement, a provider is expected to utilize the child's identified pronouns, chosen name, and allow the child to dress in an age-appropriate manner that the child believes reflects their self-identified gender identity and expression.”
This is what is called "social transition." The eminent British pediatrician, Dr. Hillary Cass, in her interim report on gender identity services for children and young people, found of social transition that “this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge
Ill-considered regulations like the one proposed here have the potential to consign children whose distress is caused by other factors to life-long medical interventions which cause them harm and do not resolve the underlying issues.
What is needed here is to step back from regulations like this and conduct a systemic review like that which has been done in many enlightened European countries. Only from that point will it be possible to determine the best approach in caring for these vulnerable children.
What? Tap the brakes on adoption of dangerous, irreversible treatments of unproven safety and efficacy? for a condition whose diagnosis is uncertain and known for its unreliability? And just because the health services in countries that were in the vanguard of enlightened attitudes are doing so?
Lisa, I read 100 stacks. This is easily the saddest thing I have read today...and for a long while.
These "parents" are frankly abusive on so many levels. Some day, if there is a God, they will regret their actions (when their children disown them). But the grandparents -- they will be long gone and the opportunity for apology and closure long past. What a complete loss for all three generations.
Meanwhile, these nihilistic, unhinged adult children and grandchildren are assuming they'll still inherit the nest egg the grandparents worked so hard to save and grow. It is completely reasonable to change your will under these circumstances. Why would you willingly pass the inheritance on to this anti-family movement? I perceive that my ex, who's been saying he's me, the mother of our 2 sons for decades, is estranged from his 88 year old mother, because he never paid back the "loan" they took out of their modest nest egg to help him pay for his 1996 "sex change" surgeries. Despite the fact that he fully owns his coop in Brooklyn worth 3M and is an executive in a tech company. My ex mother-in-law lives near her youngest son and blogs online only about her other children and the great grandson from one of them. This is the "trans movement" personified.
I have been puzzled by the use of the term "gender nonconforming" almost as a synonym for transgender, when I had thought it meant refusing to conform to gendered expectations. Now I think I understand what the trans believers and activists mean: that conforming to a gender means acknowledging that you belong to a sex category--male or female--and therefore to be gender nonconforming is to say that you choose a different sex (or no sex) from the one you were "assigned" at birth. Can this really be what they mean? If so, we are in an even worse place than I thought.
I am an atheist and a skeptic. Throughout this trans-mania I have been baffled how many skeptic-atheist types, including many public figures whom I admire (or admired), have not applied traditional skeptical analysis to the many questions it has raised.
First and foremost, it's blindingly obvious to me that the weight of evidence is on the side of skepticism when it comes to many assertions by trans activists.
For example, evidence on the side of what we can call "self ID" seems to be:
1) Personal, internal, subjective feelings
2) Behavior and presentation
On 1), I think it's clear why this is evidence of dubious quality. Humans can "feel like" a lot of things that aren't objectively true; the classic example is an anorectic, who absolutely "knows" that they are "too fat," when all objective evidence suggests otherwise.
Re 2) trades almost exclusively in sex stereotypes, so frankly isn't any kind of evidence at all, in my opinion. I'm one who believes that males and females can behave and present in any way they choose — dress, sexuality, mannerisms, etc. — and it doesn't alter the fact that they are male or female (you know, boys playing with dolls, girls playing rugby, all that).
On the skeptical side:
1) DNA
2) Morphology and physiology
3) Endocrine evidence
I worked with archaeologists for about 5 years on a project (I'm a writer) in which we were exhuming the remains of U.S. Marines (and a few Navy and Army personnel) killed in World War II. I learned that, contrary to some bizarre claims by anthropologists these days (basically, an archaeologist is a physical anthropologist doing field work), they can determine with a high degree of confidence the sex, race and approximate age of skeletal remains that have been buried for seven decades (or considerably longer, in other cases). There are some edge cases, I understand, but I've never seen one. The dead on this battlefield were known to be male, but there is not one of the more than 200 so far recovered that was in any way confounding in the skeletal or DNA evidence.
Morphologically, despite the very rare occurrence (on the order of 0.018%, I believe?) of DSDs (diifferences of sexual development, aka "intersex"), the sex of well north of 99% of the population can be easily determined by the presence or absence of anatomy consistent with the production of either large (ova) or small (sperm) gametes. In addition, there are other structures that can be examined that, for all intents and purposes, allow for the easy identification of males or females, such as hip structure, secondary sex characteristics, heart and lung size, etc.
Hormone-wise, it's abundantly clear in the vast majority of cases who is male and who is female, post puberty (and even pre-puberty, to a lesser extent).
So, it seems to me that a credible skeptic would conclude that the evidence weighs heavily in favor of:
1) Homo sapiens is a sexually dimorphic species
2) Regardless of external physical changes (i.e. surgery, presentation) or artificial altering of hormone levels, no human can "become the other sex."
3) If gender is about how a person feels or presents, fine; that is not evidence that they "are" or have "become" the opposite sex.
I appreciate heterodox trans commentators who acknowledge the impossibility of "becoming" the other sex, and that they are an A person presenting as B, or vice versa.
Non-binary becomes particularly idiotic when once common methods of skepticism are applied.
Amazingly, this has ripped the atheist and skeptic communities apart. I'm sure the wingnut religious fundamentalists are psyched about that.
The refusal to even talk about it? The siblings jumping on board? The brutal rejection? I want to believe there must be something else going on in grandma’s relationship with her children to cause this rift other than the transition of a child over reductive stereotypes. But, I know how insidious the gender cult is, so not affirming 100% is likely enough.
Glad you came to the conclusion that not affirming 100% is likely enough. I have a friend who is a grandma. Her granddaughter has been making her way from female to nb to male with a hint of female to who knows now. She has been affirming, believes there are transgender people and most importantly, doesn't want to cause more mental health issues for her granddaughter to prevent suicide- despite no announcements of such. She has been alienated from her daughter over this despite being affirming. I suspect the alienation stems from the grandmother suggesting therapy for her granddaughter as she suggests it for me too having a gender confused child.
It really is all or nothing. So much so, that even mild concern is seen as heresy. That’s how you know there is something insidious afoot. It’s compliance or else.
This story makes me feel like it's not the whole story -- as if there are other, longstanding relationship problems, and this child's notion is being used to bring it to a head. Maybe not consciously.
I just posted a similar concern. It certainly seems possible, but then I keep thinking of how unhinged those captured by this ideology become. The one nagging doubt is the reaction from the siblings.
I have seen siblings behave abominably. All anxious to make sure not to oppress their relative, not having done their homework, but sure that they know better than the relative who has. So I didn't doubt this.
The siblings may have done their homework. The key here is "all anxious" to accomodate the trans-identifying sibling. When it started to become clear that my younger kid would need intensive mental health care, my elder warned me that the trans things was percolating and I should try to protect the younger. I couldn't protect the younger though as the trans craze had been completely embedded into our local mental health system, and the local mental health system gladly lied about that fact to us parents. As soon as he started trans-identifying, my elder told me, sensibly, that my younger will be the elder's longest-living closest family tie (knock on wood). Then the elder affirmed, 100%, and begged and continues to beg me to also affirm to keep the family from disintegrating in case the younger decides that <100% affirmation is abusive and goes no contact. So far, the younger hasn't gone no contact with me, but I know the younger has been advised to do so by more than one mental health pro. I stopped paying for all mental health pros for this reason. The elder gave notice if younger does go NC with me, and insists elder sibling do so too, elder sibling will comply to protect the relationship. I've been warned. It's an awful, manipulative situation and I don't know whether to count myself lucky or not.
As an atheist, I suspect that many, perhaps most, grandparents or parents who strenuously object to a child's "nonconformity," either in terms of sexuality or what I'll call "gender presentation" (i.e. more effeminate boys, more masculine girls), come by their views via religious belief.
To me, supernatural religious belief and uncritical acceptance of ancient tomes and texts is no more supported by evidence than the proposition that a man can "become" a woman, and vice versa, or to be slightly less inflammatory (and more accurate, perhaps?) a male can "become" a female, and vice versa.
Seriously, can anyone provide any credible evidence for supernatural religious beliefs? I would argue not (the operative word being "credible").
I view the current transmania as religious belief in a seemingly secular guise. It includes fanciful beliefs not supported by evidence; it vigorously shuns "unbelievers" and heretics; it's got a kind of "priesthood" of experts in the medical, therapeutic, academic and other fields; it proselytizes ferociously; and so on.
So I suspect that many of the fractures within families are de facto religious disputes, people holding fast to their "faith" in a respective religious belief system.
And as I've said for a long time now, American Christians and conservative Christian culture bear a good deal of blame for the current trans craziness. "Trans" is a deeply homophobic ideology, trafficking in conversion culture. Because "good" Christians can't handle having a more effeminate boy or (to a lesser degree) masculine girl, and *really* can't deal with actual homosexuals — the horror! The horror! — they have created a lot of fear and self-loathing in the culture at large, and among kids, who know they are gay but think they are "not supposed to be this way.
So, anti-gay believers (not just Christians; they just dominate in the U.S.), you need to fess up that your own discomfort and anti-historical (homosexual behavior is known in virtually every culture throughout history ... why would your "god" allow this scourage to continue? And don't play either the "Satan card" or the "fallen world" card ... not having that nonsense) views on homosexuality have paved the way for many kids to think that they can escape this "abominable" fate by "becoming" the other sex.
I can honestly see how a family with a kid struggling — for whatever reasons — with gender stuff and fixated on "trans" as a panacea, would be hesitant to allow contact with grandparents who insist on inflicting their own illogical, counter-evidential fairy tales.
Not saying that's the case with anyone in LSD's piece above, but it's worth thinking about.
P.S. I do not think schools should withhold information about children from parents, unless there are clear indicators that the child would be *truly* endangered. But how, I wonder, shall we handle those parents who inflict their religious judgment and dogma on a kid in response to gender or sexuality confusion, regardless of the cause? The dangers, in my opinion, are not likely to be physical, but rather harshly emotional — still potentially damaging, I think most will agree.
I'm not so sure about American conservative so-called "Evangelicals". I have the impression they're as much opposed to "transition" for transsexuals as much as they are opposed to homosexuality. To be realistic, we probably should take the term "Evangelicals" as the label for an ethnic group rather than as a meaningful term for a religious tradition.
Ironically, perhaps, the mullahs of Iran have enthusiastically embraced the extreme trans doctrine that "trans women ARE women, dammit!". Homosexuality is an egregious violation of Allah's law, but if homosexuals consent to brutal surgery and a lifetime of dependence on dangerous chemicals and frequent medical complications, it restores them to compliance with Allah's design. The radical trans ideologues don't appeal to some future divine enforcement of their ideology; they rely instead on threats of social penalties in the present, which may be a more dire enforcement mechanism.. Of course, in some circumstances in Iran, refusing to consent to "transition" may get you thrown off the roof of a tall building. For more information, Google "transition in Iran" or check out this article:
Yes, the hard-core Christians are just as anti-trans as they are anti-gay, probably more so. But that's the point: I believe they helped create our current transmania, but there they are, ranting and raving about it.
Lisa, What is the data on how many gays were kicked out? Were these families very religious? And what is the trend specifically with gays? Is there any data? It seems there is always so much conflation with gays and "trans"gender. Actually a lot of conflations - GNC, dysphoria to name a couple. There are lots of us estranged from our kids for not using the name/pronouns. According to the kids, support is affirmation. It's a hard line or black & white thinking even though many do not have ASD.
<<... the preschool teacher had noted James preferred “boy toys.”>> Are you kidding?! I'm not around preschoolers now, but I'd have thought we had long since abandoned rigid sex typing of their toys and compelling their compliance with our rules. This episode is an example of exactly what I've long feared, namely, hip, slick, and cool parents who aren't supporting or affirming but actually encouraging (tantamount to compelling, in my opinion) a child's supposed gender nonconformity. Has the tragic outcome of the experiments with"social transition" on David Reimer and his twin been forgotten?
Yes, as a retired Pre-K and K teacher, we are not trained to inculcate sex stereotypes in the classroom. This is retcon and a con. These newly certified ideologues in classrooms also think teaching math is "colonialist."
The diagnosis for gender dysphoria for children has a requirement of a certain number of symptoms. One of the symptoms is playing with toys of the opposite sex. Yes. Unbelievable.
Only 6 years old. Need I say more? I cannot believe that’s it’s come to this. This little girl is only 6 years old. She should not even be thinking about gender issues. She should be happy, carefree and playing with toys. In my book, what this mother is doing to this child is nothing short of child abuse. To refuse this child her grandmother’s love is wrong. A grandmother who has been part of this child’s life since birth. What do you think that teaches this little girl?? What do you think this little girl is feeling about losing her grandmother so abruptly and not even being allowed to say goodbye??!! Trust me, this child will pay the price and her mental health will suffer. This world has gone crazy! All these “study’s” have only begun. We have no concrete evidence of consequences yet. And when we do, can we please compare them to all the other study’s on lost broken children that have nothing to do with gender. I dare you to. Because breaking up families over gender is ridiculous. Society has simply created a new way to abuse children. And calling it legal! Tragic.
Heartbreaking.... I find the conflation of gay and trans frustrating. This seems purposeful by the trans activists. If you question the child’s gender proclamations you are branded anti LGBTQetc. I think the cowardly MD is disgraceful! Where are all of the happy, well adjusted trans-adults?. Shouldn’t we be seeing happy, healthy trans engineers, nurses, computer programmers etc.?
The conflation of gay and trans is indeed intentional, in fact, a crucial part of the political and legal strategy developed by the London based international law firm, Denton.
The document itself has been removed from both the firm's and the client's web sites. Fortunately, it was preserved by some interested people. You can find it here:
https://gendercriticalwoman.blog/2023/02/10/that-dentons-document-2/
The 𝘚𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘰𝘳 has an accessible description of the background for the Denton document.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/
For me the most alarming recommendations clearly are suggesting fastening the trans movement as a parasite on the movement for gay equality.
<< 6.Use human rights as a campaign point
Based on our research, human rights arguments have been instrumental to the success of several campaigns for more progressive gender recognition laws....
7. Tie your campaign to more popular reform
In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of
protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support. >>
As a gay man, I see the enthusiasm of health care professionals for medical transition of children as being a revival of conversion therapy but in a far more dangerous and irreversible way. It's a path facilitated by widespread ignorance of the difference between sexual orientation and identification. Unfortunately, the public backlash against the more preposterous policies of the radical trans ideologues does not exempt the advances in gay equality.
Addendum 11/23/2023
The Spectator article is behind the paywall but I've found a copy that isn't. Sorry for any inconveniences. Thanks, Google.
https://www.peaktrans.org/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists-james-kirkup-the-spectator-02-12-19/
The happy well-adjusted trans adults are just living their lives, mostly, out of the spotlight (off social media).
But we don’t hear from any of them. I would think at least a few would come out and say how they benefitted. There is a giant fight going on and they aren’t lending their voice in support of medical and social transition!?!?
I am featured in several podcasts. Search for my name in Spotify
Done. Actually, I realize I had I listened to you with Stephanie Winn. And yes, you seem like a very together and grounded person. I thought what you had to say was important. I think most of us are concerned with the ROGD that covers up the other mental health issues in adolescence and also seems to lead to family estrangement. I'm not anti-trangenderism when it is the real thing. I am pro years of exploration to come to the correct diagnosis.
Those certainly are concerning issues. I also support ample exploration. Seven years passed between when I realized I was trans and the initiation of cross-sex hormones.
This is utterly heartbreaking. Thank you, Lisa, for reaching so deeply into these issues and writing about them with such empathy and eloquence.
I have just learned, BTW, via Leor Sapir, that there is what looks to be an extremely bad proposed federal foster care regulation on which comments are due 11/28. Here’s the information I have:
To be approved for placement, prospective foster parents are, among other things, “expected to utilize the child’s identified pronouns, chosen name, and allow the child to dress in an age-appropriate manner that the child believes reflects their self-identified gender identity and expression.” Here’s a link to an article Leor Sapir posted: https://fedsoc.org/commentary/fedsoc-blog/non-affirmation-of-child-s-lgbtqi-identity-is-abuse-under-proposed-foster-care-rule and here’s the federal register link: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/09/28/2023-21274/safe-and-appropriate-foster-care-placement-requirements-for-titles-iv-e-and-iv-b
I have submitted a comment. Here is the text. I urge everyone to do so. It’s best to write in your own words, though feel free to use what I’ve written as a springboard. You don't need to be an expert, though all here most likely are:
I write as a staunch Democrat and also a lesbian, which I indicate so there can be no mistake about my perspective, to beg of you not to proceed with this change in regulations until you have fully acquainted yourself with the harms that are being caused by inappropriately applied "gender affirming care." Foster children are at particular risk for confusion about their sex and sexuality and can easily be swept into thinking they are born in the wrong body, when the cause, if examined properly through thoughtful mental health therapy, may likely lie elsewhere.
As just one example, the proposed regulations state, with regard to prospective foster parents, "For example, to be considered a safe and appropriate placement, a provider is expected to utilize the child's identified pronouns, chosen name, and allow the child to dress in an age-appropriate manner that the child believes reflects their self-identified gender identity and expression.”
This is what is called "social transition." The eminent British pediatrician, Dr. Hillary Cass, in her interim report on gender identity services for children and young people, found of social transition that “this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge
that it is not a neutral act, anda better information is needed about outcomes. "https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf
Ill-considered regulations like the one proposed here have the potential to consign children whose distress is caused by other factors to life-long medical interventions which cause them harm and do not resolve the underlying issues.
What is needed here is to step back from regulations like this and conduct a systemic review like that which has been done in many enlightened European countries. Only from that point will it be possible to determine the best approach in caring for these vulnerable children.
Thank you for your consideration.
Thank you for making us aware of this bill...
What? Tap the brakes on adoption of dangerous, irreversible treatments of unproven safety and efficacy? for a condition whose diagnosis is uncertain and known for its unreliability? And just because the health services in countries that were in the vanguard of enlightened attitudes are doing so?
I’m so sorry to read this story. I hope the family realizes how they are behaving is truly awful and there is time for repair.
Lisa, I read 100 stacks. This is easily the saddest thing I have read today...and for a long while.
These "parents" are frankly abusive on so many levels. Some day, if there is a God, they will regret their actions (when their children disown them). But the grandparents -- they will be long gone and the opportunity for apology and closure long past. What a complete loss for all three generations.
Thanks for being so eloquent in what you write.
Meanwhile, these nihilistic, unhinged adult children and grandchildren are assuming they'll still inherit the nest egg the grandparents worked so hard to save and grow. It is completely reasonable to change your will under these circumstances. Why would you willingly pass the inheritance on to this anti-family movement? I perceive that my ex, who's been saying he's me, the mother of our 2 sons for decades, is estranged from his 88 year old mother, because he never paid back the "loan" they took out of their modest nest egg to help him pay for his 1996 "sex change" surgeries. Despite the fact that he fully owns his coop in Brooklyn worth 3M and is an executive in a tech company. My ex mother-in-law lives near her youngest son and blogs online only about her other children and the great grandson from one of them. This is the "trans movement" personified.
I have been puzzled by the use of the term "gender nonconforming" almost as a synonym for transgender, when I had thought it meant refusing to conform to gendered expectations. Now I think I understand what the trans believers and activists mean: that conforming to a gender means acknowledging that you belong to a sex category--male or female--and therefore to be gender nonconforming is to say that you choose a different sex (or no sex) from the one you were "assigned" at birth. Can this really be what they mean? If so, we are in an even worse place than I thought.
Clay Bonnyman Evans
34 mins ago
I am an atheist and a skeptic. Throughout this trans-mania I have been baffled how many skeptic-atheist types, including many public figures whom I admire (or admired), have not applied traditional skeptical analysis to the many questions it has raised.
First and foremost, it's blindingly obvious to me that the weight of evidence is on the side of skepticism when it comes to many assertions by trans activists.
For example, evidence on the side of what we can call "self ID" seems to be:
1) Personal, internal, subjective feelings
2) Behavior and presentation
On 1), I think it's clear why this is evidence of dubious quality. Humans can "feel like" a lot of things that aren't objectively true; the classic example is an anorectic, who absolutely "knows" that they are "too fat," when all objective evidence suggests otherwise.
Re 2) trades almost exclusively in sex stereotypes, so frankly isn't any kind of evidence at all, in my opinion. I'm one who believes that males and females can behave and present in any way they choose — dress, sexuality, mannerisms, etc. — and it doesn't alter the fact that they are male or female (you know, boys playing with dolls, girls playing rugby, all that).
On the skeptical side:
1) DNA
2) Morphology and physiology
3) Endocrine evidence
I worked with archaeologists for about 5 years on a project (I'm a writer) in which we were exhuming the remains of U.S. Marines (and a few Navy and Army personnel) killed in World War II. I learned that, contrary to some bizarre claims by anthropologists these days (basically, an archaeologist is a physical anthropologist doing field work), they can determine with a high degree of confidence the sex, race and approximate age of skeletal remains that have been buried for seven decades (or considerably longer, in other cases). There are some edge cases, I understand, but I've never seen one. The dead on this battlefield were known to be male, but there is not one of the more than 200 so far recovered that was in any way confounding in the skeletal or DNA evidence.
Morphologically, despite the very rare occurrence (on the order of 0.018%, I believe?) of DSDs (diifferences of sexual development, aka "intersex"), the sex of well north of 99% of the population can be easily determined by the presence or absence of anatomy consistent with the production of either large (ova) or small (sperm) gametes. In addition, there are other structures that can be examined that, for all intents and purposes, allow for the easy identification of males or females, such as hip structure, secondary sex characteristics, heart and lung size, etc.
Hormone-wise, it's abundantly clear in the vast majority of cases who is male and who is female, post puberty (and even pre-puberty, to a lesser extent).
So, it seems to me that a credible skeptic would conclude that the evidence weighs heavily in favor of:
1) Homo sapiens is a sexually dimorphic species
2) Regardless of external physical changes (i.e. surgery, presentation) or artificial altering of hormone levels, no human can "become the other sex."
3) If gender is about how a person feels or presents, fine; that is not evidence that they "are" or have "become" the opposite sex.
I appreciate heterodox trans commentators who acknowledge the impossibility of "becoming" the other sex, and that they are an A person presenting as B, or vice versa.
Non-binary becomes particularly idiotic when once common methods of skepticism are applied.
Amazingly, this has ripped the atheist and skeptic communities apart. I'm sure the wingnut religious fundamentalists are psyched about that.
Whoops, wrong Substack!
The refusal to even talk about it? The siblings jumping on board? The brutal rejection? I want to believe there must be something else going on in grandma’s relationship with her children to cause this rift other than the transition of a child over reductive stereotypes. But, I know how insidious the gender cult is, so not affirming 100% is likely enough.
Glad you came to the conclusion that not affirming 100% is likely enough. I have a friend who is a grandma. Her granddaughter has been making her way from female to nb to male with a hint of female to who knows now. She has been affirming, believes there are transgender people and most importantly, doesn't want to cause more mental health issues for her granddaughter to prevent suicide- despite no announcements of such. She has been alienated from her daughter over this despite being affirming. I suspect the alienation stems from the grandmother suggesting therapy for her granddaughter as she suggests it for me too having a gender confused child.
It really is all or nothing. So much so, that even mild concern is seen as heresy. That’s how you know there is something insidious afoot. It’s compliance or else.
Cult.
This story makes me feel like it's not the whole story -- as if there are other, longstanding relationship problems, and this child's notion is being used to bring it to a head. Maybe not consciously.
I just posted a similar concern. It certainly seems possible, but then I keep thinking of how unhinged those captured by this ideology become. The one nagging doubt is the reaction from the siblings.
I have seen siblings behave abominably. All anxious to make sure not to oppress their relative, not having done their homework, but sure that they know better than the relative who has. So I didn't doubt this.
The siblings may have done their homework. The key here is "all anxious" to accomodate the trans-identifying sibling. When it started to become clear that my younger kid would need intensive mental health care, my elder warned me that the trans things was percolating and I should try to protect the younger. I couldn't protect the younger though as the trans craze had been completely embedded into our local mental health system, and the local mental health system gladly lied about that fact to us parents. As soon as he started trans-identifying, my elder told me, sensibly, that my younger will be the elder's longest-living closest family tie (knock on wood). Then the elder affirmed, 100%, and begged and continues to beg me to also affirm to keep the family from disintegrating in case the younger decides that <100% affirmation is abusive and goes no contact. So far, the younger hasn't gone no contact with me, but I know the younger has been advised to do so by more than one mental health pro. I stopped paying for all mental health pros for this reason. The elder gave notice if younger does go NC with me, and insists elder sibling do so too, elder sibling will comply to protect the relationship. I've been warned. It's an awful, manipulative situation and I don't know whether to count myself lucky or not.
Tragic. And should never happen.
Here's something I seldom see addressed:
As an atheist, I suspect that many, perhaps most, grandparents or parents who strenuously object to a child's "nonconformity," either in terms of sexuality or what I'll call "gender presentation" (i.e. more effeminate boys, more masculine girls), come by their views via religious belief.
To me, supernatural religious belief and uncritical acceptance of ancient tomes and texts is no more supported by evidence than the proposition that a man can "become" a woman, and vice versa, or to be slightly less inflammatory (and more accurate, perhaps?) a male can "become" a female, and vice versa.
Seriously, can anyone provide any credible evidence for supernatural religious beliefs? I would argue not (the operative word being "credible").
I view the current transmania as religious belief in a seemingly secular guise. It includes fanciful beliefs not supported by evidence; it vigorously shuns "unbelievers" and heretics; it's got a kind of "priesthood" of experts in the medical, therapeutic, academic and other fields; it proselytizes ferociously; and so on.
So I suspect that many of the fractures within families are de facto religious disputes, people holding fast to their "faith" in a respective religious belief system.
And as I've said for a long time now, American Christians and conservative Christian culture bear a good deal of blame for the current trans craziness. "Trans" is a deeply homophobic ideology, trafficking in conversion culture. Because "good" Christians can't handle having a more effeminate boy or (to a lesser degree) masculine girl, and *really* can't deal with actual homosexuals — the horror! The horror! — they have created a lot of fear and self-loathing in the culture at large, and among kids, who know they are gay but think they are "not supposed to be this way.
So, anti-gay believers (not just Christians; they just dominate in the U.S.), you need to fess up that your own discomfort and anti-historical (homosexual behavior is known in virtually every culture throughout history ... why would your "god" allow this scourage to continue? And don't play either the "Satan card" or the "fallen world" card ... not having that nonsense) views on homosexuality have paved the way for many kids to think that they can escape this "abominable" fate by "becoming" the other sex.
I can honestly see how a family with a kid struggling — for whatever reasons — with gender stuff and fixated on "trans" as a panacea, would be hesitant to allow contact with grandparents who insist on inflicting their own illogical, counter-evidential fairy tales.
Not saying that's the case with anyone in LSD's piece above, but it's worth thinking about.
P.S. I do not think schools should withhold information about children from parents, unless there are clear indicators that the child would be *truly* endangered. But how, I wonder, shall we handle those parents who inflict their religious judgment and dogma on a kid in response to gender or sexuality confusion, regardless of the cause? The dangers, in my opinion, are not likely to be physical, but rather harshly emotional — still potentially damaging, I think most will agree.
I'm not so sure about American conservative so-called "Evangelicals". I have the impression they're as much opposed to "transition" for transsexuals as much as they are opposed to homosexuality. To be realistic, we probably should take the term "Evangelicals" as the label for an ethnic group rather than as a meaningful term for a religious tradition.
Ironically, perhaps, the mullahs of Iran have enthusiastically embraced the extreme trans doctrine that "trans women ARE women, dammit!". Homosexuality is an egregious violation of Allah's law, but if homosexuals consent to brutal surgery and a lifetime of dependence on dangerous chemicals and frequent medical complications, it restores them to compliance with Allah's design. The radical trans ideologues don't appeal to some future divine enforcement of their ideology; they rely instead on threats of social penalties in the present, which may be a more dire enforcement mechanism.. Of course, in some circumstances in Iran, refusing to consent to "transition" may get you thrown off the roof of a tall building. For more information, Google "transition in Iran" or check out this article:
https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/journals/wpj/v31i1/f_0033061_26914.pdf
Yes, the hard-core Christians are just as anti-trans as they are anti-gay, probably more so. But that's the point: I believe they helped create our current transmania, but there they are, ranting and raving about it.
Lisa, What is the data on how many gays were kicked out? Were these families very religious? And what is the trend specifically with gays? Is there any data? It seems there is always so much conflation with gays and "trans"gender. Actually a lot of conflations - GNC, dysphoria to name a couple. There are lots of us estranged from our kids for not using the name/pronouns. According to the kids, support is affirmation. It's a hard line or black & white thinking even though many do not have ASD.