Dr. Bowers opposes state legislation that will limit medicalized gender care to counseling in the case of minors. Why? Because, she claims, research overwhelmingly demonstrates the positive effects of transitioning upon those suffering from gender dysphoria (Indeed, she claims studies show a "consensus" on this.) And therefore, Dr. Bowers argues, "hormones and surgery" should be available to gender distressed minors to "make [a future, prospective] transition easier."
This argument fails on several counts.
First, Bowers' evidence of positive medical transition outcomes is weak. The literature review she cites itself states that the lack of control groups - gender dysphoric people treated only by therapy vs. by drugs or surgery too - limits its findings. Further, as Emily Bazelon noted in the New York Times, the literature review cited by Bowers looked at a different transgender demographic - transgender people with early, longstanding gender dysphoria, not the huge influx of individuals presenting with comorbid psychological conditions and short dysphoric histories, today.
The second problem with Dr. Bowers' NYT piece is that she ignores the short- and long-term health risks and effects of medicalized transitions - risks that, due to low quality research, are still not well understood. The known short-term risks alone make the medicalized transition of minors irresponsible - and avoiding consideration of those risks, as Dr. Bowers does, is unconscionable.
Third, Dr. Bowers' claim of medical "consensus" is false. As Bazelon noted, in the US, disputation has broken out among doctors - dispute we can now see among parents and politicians too. Meanwhile, outside the US, European countries that compassionately pioneered gender medicine have taken stock of the low quality studies and spiking gender dysphoric population - and, consequently, have sharply limited the medicalized treatment of youth gender dysphoria.
The emergent lack of consensus among Democrats in particular is demonstrated by the NYT Bazelon piece. Nine out of ten NYT readers identify as Democrats. As the huge outpouring of positive comments on Bazelon's piece demonstrated, liberals across the Democratic Party political spectrum are challenging prevalent gender medicine protocols - from the right liberals who voted for Hillary Clinton, to the left liberals who support the economic- and class-oriented politics of Bernie Sanders.
Excellent rebuttal to Bower in every line. Just want to note there are also many Warren liberals among those who commented positively on the Bazelon piece (including me). In that regard, this would also be a great letter to send to Senators Sanders and Warren, both of whom signed a Senate letter in support of changes to Title IX regulations that, among other things, states: “Protecting transgender students’ rights to participate in athletic activities consistent with their gender identity in no way disadvantages their fellow students, and does not take away or undermine the protections Title IX provides for women and girls.” https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/220912%20Title%20IX%20Comment%20Letter.pdf It’s another good example of the way in which public officials like Warren and Sanders, who are exemplary on so many other issues, somehow lose the plot when it comes to gender ideology. We really need these two, in particular, to step up and wrest this issue away from malevolent actors on the right.
And yes, if you read what some of the MD's are doing and realize what the medical socieities aren't doing, then you realize legislative responses are needed.
Bowers also seems to have forgotten to mention that most with childhood onset outgrow gender dysphoria unless socially or medically transitioned and that you don't know who won't, and that for adolescents it is unknown.
That NYT article was so full of inaccuracies. unbelievable. Thank you for speaking up!
This is not unbelievable. As a lifetime NYT subscriber, the last 10 years have seen then change from the "paper of record" to an utterly yellow rag. Very sad but virtually every article that requires discernment is outright wrong. You have to get your news from elsewhere.
I thought Dr. Bower's piece should be called "My Apologia" for the interview she gave to Abigail Shrier. I imagine the pressure by activists was enormous and she caved. I absolutely agree with the observation that there is a vacuum that the right has filled. And while I completely disagree with legislators dictating medical practice, I am alarmed by the escalation by trans activists and the left, including the administration in doubling down on so-called medically necessary and "life-affirming" care without regard for the safety of children and youth.
So well stated: "What many on the Left don’t realize is that these legislative responses rein in radical ideas and practices when schools and medical organizations won’t do so themselves. They’re filling the vacuum left by the politicians and clinicians who’ve chosen politics over science. Activist trans doctors create this void; Republican politicians, perhaps seeing an opportunity for political gain—but also perhaps also actually listening to those who’ve been hurt—fill it in."
Marci Bowers' op-ed makes it feel like a one-step-forward-two-steps-back day in gender-land, and I thank you, as always, Lisa, for your ongoing commitment to nuance.
Bowers asks: "why are legislators and politicians making medical decisions for patients and families instead of doctors?" and Lisa's answer is so spot-on. First, we regulate health care all the time (and surely, sometimes, in ways that we all appreciate). Second, by "choosing politics over science" and insisting on "no debate", providers invite the right-wing backlash. I don't for a minute think that Republican legislators have only our kids' well-being in mind when they ban hormones and surgeries, but without American doctors asking more questions and systematically reviewing the research, as other countries' doctors seem to be doing, how else do we protect kids from harm?
As upsetting, to me, as her sloppiness with the facts is Bowers' notion that providers "truly care" for patients, in the way that families do. To me, "truly caring" would look like asking more questions, engaging with international providers with different perspectives, and following up with patients over the long-term.
I look forward to this. My heart breaks for the trans people caught up in. It has brought down so much hatred on them. Also, it hasn't been helpful this 73 year old lesbian either.
Yes, we need to hear more from trans people who believe sex is immutable, even if gender isn’t. People like Corinna Cohn, Blair White, maybe Buck Angel?
On perusing the Buttons piece that Lisa linked I found the below, which relates to Lisa's previous post and the discussion that ensued. I thought these definitions might be helpful to us all in thinking about these concepts:
"An ideology is a set of beliefs that shape an individual's or group's worldview.
"The difference between a belief and a fact is that a belief is a subjective interpretation or conviction about something that may or may not be supported by evidence or experience, while a fact is an objective aspect of reality that can be verified through direct observation or measurement."
i guess its nice to know that some "trans" ppl dont agree with this widespread fraud that is occuring on a global scale. but im not sure it maters much. its like saying some russians dont agree with the invasion of ukraine. good to know some arent drinking the kool aid.
bowers makes many false claims in her NY times article. her doing so feels like a backtrack inspired by loyalty to the gender mafia more than anything.
"Decades of medical experience and research since has found that when patients are treated for gender dysphoria, their self-esteem grows and their stress, anxiety, substance use and suicidality decrease."
the key word in this statement is "experience". experience isnt evidence. its opinion. and whats come to light is this opinion is contrary to the evidence that actually shows the opposite: this "care" doesnt help. A recent BMJ report details how we got to a place where fiction has replaced fact creating the fraudulant claim that gender care improves lives: these claims are opinions made without evidence by ppl who make their living via this harmful fraud.
"it is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Sinclair.
"in 2018, Cornell University’s Center for the Study of Inequality released a comprehensive literature review finding that gender transition, including hormones and surgery, “improves the well-being of transgender people.”
- this cornell review is a misleading document filled with false claims and cherry picked red herrings. the fact that anyone would be allowed to push the claims presented is fraud and criminal byitsself. its lies. pure and simple. also again with the word "consensus" meaning opinion. its the opinion of quacks that are contrary to the evidence.
heres a link to an article about the cornell review titled What We Don’t Know: Does Gender Transition Improve the Lives of People with Gender Dysphoria?
when Bowers says her surgerys are successful, she means from a surgery perspective omiting the issue if the surgery helps a person in the long term. we know these surgeries do nothing to address the issues they claim to. and we know that people who have had these surgeries commit sucide much more than average. we know that most people's psych issues get better over time without any treatment at all. we know most kids grow out of dysphoria with only psych care. but we know that if kids take gender meds their dysphoria continues and thier pysch issues worsen
Very good points. Reminds of Black Democrats being much more moderate than the leftist Dem ideology. I just wrote a piece on this. Interesting factoid (Pew): 66% of Black Americans believe that sex is immutable and assigned at birth.
I'm looking forward to tomorrow's article. I have always believed that the way to make a change is to win hearts and minds. Trans activists seem insistent on doing the opposite, and grabbing for power. The already-in-motion backlash to that approach will cost us all. Mostly those of us in the killing field, between the opposing camps. There is no place to hide here, and no chance to change hardened hearts in my lifetime. An opportunity lost
I’d sum it up this way : adults who want to be transsexual ( medical or non medical) go for it. But do not say you can change gender and make the rest of us believe this fairy tale no surgery before 25. My sister begged for a hysterectomy bc of painful periods years ago and couldn’t get one. We have come a long way baby in a bad way.
Dr. Bowers opposes state legislation that will limit medicalized gender care to counseling in the case of minors. Why? Because, she claims, research overwhelmingly demonstrates the positive effects of transitioning upon those suffering from gender dysphoria (Indeed, she claims studies show a "consensus" on this.) And therefore, Dr. Bowers argues, "hormones and surgery" should be available to gender distressed minors to "make [a future, prospective] transition easier."
This argument fails on several counts.
First, Bowers' evidence of positive medical transition outcomes is weak. The literature review she cites itself states that the lack of control groups - gender dysphoric people treated only by therapy vs. by drugs or surgery too - limits its findings. Further, as Emily Bazelon noted in the New York Times, the literature review cited by Bowers looked at a different transgender demographic - transgender people with early, longstanding gender dysphoria, not the huge influx of individuals presenting with comorbid psychological conditions and short dysphoric histories, today.
The second problem with Dr. Bowers' NYT piece is that she ignores the short- and long-term health risks and effects of medicalized transitions - risks that, due to low quality research, are still not well understood. The known short-term risks alone make the medicalized transition of minors irresponsible - and avoiding consideration of those risks, as Dr. Bowers does, is unconscionable.
Third, Dr. Bowers' claim of medical "consensus" is false. As Bazelon noted, in the US, disputation has broken out among doctors - dispute we can now see among parents and politicians too. Meanwhile, outside the US, European countries that compassionately pioneered gender medicine have taken stock of the low quality studies and spiking gender dysphoric population - and, consequently, have sharply limited the medicalized treatment of youth gender dysphoria.
The emergent lack of consensus among Democrats in particular is demonstrated by the NYT Bazelon piece. Nine out of ten NYT readers identify as Democrats. As the huge outpouring of positive comments on Bazelon's piece demonstrated, liberals across the Democratic Party political spectrum are challenging prevalent gender medicine protocols - from the right liberals who voted for Hillary Clinton, to the left liberals who support the economic- and class-oriented politics of Bernie Sanders.
Please send this to letters@nytimes.com!
Excellent rebuttal to Bower in every line. Just want to note there are also many Warren liberals among those who commented positively on the Bazelon piece (including me). In that regard, this would also be a great letter to send to Senators Sanders and Warren, both of whom signed a Senate letter in support of changes to Title IX regulations that, among other things, states: “Protecting transgender students’ rights to participate in athletic activities consistent with their gender identity in no way disadvantages their fellow students, and does not take away or undermine the protections Title IX provides for women and girls.” https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/220912%20Title%20IX%20Comment%20Letter.pdf It’s another good example of the way in which public officials like Warren and Sanders, who are exemplary on so many other issues, somehow lose the plot when it comes to gender ideology. We really need these two, in particular, to step up and wrest this issue away from malevolent actors on the right.
Thank you!!
And yes, if you read what some of the MD's are doing and realize what the medical socieities aren't doing, then you realize legislative responses are needed.
There's a great thread on the (inadequate) regret studies quoted by Bowers, who doesn't seem to know how bad the evidence is. https://twitter.com/somenuancepls/status/1642654109382656002
also a response in the journal in the research literature (https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/11000/letter_to_the_editor__regret_after.29.aspx) and at Genspect (https://genspect.org/at-what-point-does-incompetence-become-fraud/ ).
Bowers also seems to have forgotten to mention that most with childhood onset outgrow gender dysphoria unless socially or medically transitioned and that you don't know who won't, and that for adolescents it is unknown.
That NYT article was so full of inaccuracies. unbelievable. Thank you for speaking up!
This is not unbelievable. As a lifetime NYT subscriber, the last 10 years have seen then change from the "paper of record" to an utterly yellow rag. Very sad but virtually every article that requires discernment is outright wrong. You have to get your news from elsewhere.
I thought Dr. Bower's piece should be called "My Apologia" for the interview she gave to Abigail Shrier. I imagine the pressure by activists was enormous and she caved. I absolutely agree with the observation that there is a vacuum that the right has filled. And while I completely disagree with legislators dictating medical practice, I am alarmed by the escalation by trans activists and the left, including the administration in doubling down on so-called medically necessary and "life-affirming" care without regard for the safety of children and youth.
So well stated: "What many on the Left don’t realize is that these legislative responses rein in radical ideas and practices when schools and medical organizations won’t do so themselves. They’re filling the vacuum left by the politicians and clinicians who’ve chosen politics over science. Activist trans doctors create this void; Republican politicians, perhaps seeing an opportunity for political gain—but also perhaps also actually listening to those who’ve been hurt—fill it in."
Marci Bowers' op-ed makes it feel like a one-step-forward-two-steps-back day in gender-land, and I thank you, as always, Lisa, for your ongoing commitment to nuance.
Bowers asks: "why are legislators and politicians making medical decisions for patients and families instead of doctors?" and Lisa's answer is so spot-on. First, we regulate health care all the time (and surely, sometimes, in ways that we all appreciate). Second, by "choosing politics over science" and insisting on "no debate", providers invite the right-wing backlash. I don't for a minute think that Republican legislators have only our kids' well-being in mind when they ban hormones and surgeries, but without American doctors asking more questions and systematically reviewing the research, as other countries' doctors seem to be doing, how else do we protect kids from harm?
As upsetting, to me, as her sloppiness with the facts is Bowers' notion that providers "truly care" for patients, in the way that families do. To me, "truly caring" would look like asking more questions, engaging with international providers with different perspectives, and following up with patients over the long-term.
Really well-put. Please also send this to letters@nytimes.com!
I look forward to this. My heart breaks for the trans people caught up in. It has brought down so much hatred on them. Also, it hasn't been helpful this 73 year old lesbian either.
Yes, we need to hear more from trans people who believe sex is immutable, even if gender isn’t. People like Corinna Cohn, Blair White, maybe Buck Angel?
Have you listened to Lisa's Heterodox Trans podcasts?
Not yet, but I've heard interviews with all those folks on other podcasts. Transparency, by the two Aarons, is also interesting: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1TbvgV-szO9MjE3y_cO-nH2kyHEzfzHH
On perusing the Buttons piece that Lisa linked I found the below, which relates to Lisa's previous post and the discussion that ensued. I thought these definitions might be helpful to us all in thinking about these concepts:
"An ideology is a set of beliefs that shape an individual's or group's worldview.
"The difference between a belief and a fact is that a belief is a subjective interpretation or conviction about something that may or may not be supported by evidence or experience, while a fact is an objective aspect of reality that can be verified through direct observation or measurement."
i guess its nice to know that some "trans" ppl dont agree with this widespread fraud that is occuring on a global scale. but im not sure it maters much. its like saying some russians dont agree with the invasion of ukraine. good to know some arent drinking the kool aid.
bowers makes many false claims in her NY times article. her doing so feels like a backtrack inspired by loyalty to the gender mafia more than anything.
"Decades of medical experience and research since has found that when patients are treated for gender dysphoria, their self-esteem grows and their stress, anxiety, substance use and suicidality decrease."
the key word in this statement is "experience". experience isnt evidence. its opinion. and whats come to light is this opinion is contrary to the evidence that actually shows the opposite: this "care" doesnt help. A recent BMJ report details how we got to a place where fiction has replaced fact creating the fraudulant claim that gender care improves lives: these claims are opinions made without evidence by ppl who make their living via this harmful fraud.
"it is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Sinclair.
https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p382
"in 2018, Cornell University’s Center for the Study of Inequality released a comprehensive literature review finding that gender transition, including hormones and surgery, “improves the well-being of transgender people.”
- this cornell review is a misleading document filled with false claims and cherry picked red herrings. the fact that anyone would be allowed to push the claims presented is fraud and criminal byitsself. its lies. pure and simple. also again with the word "consensus" meaning opinion. its the opinion of quacks that are contrary to the evidence.
heres a link to an article about the cornell review titled What We Don’t Know: Does Gender Transition Improve the Lives of People with Gender Dysphoria?
https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/04/51524/
when Bowers says her surgerys are successful, she means from a surgery perspective omiting the issue if the surgery helps a person in the long term. we know these surgeries do nothing to address the issues they claim to. and we know that people who have had these surgeries commit sucide much more than average. we know that most people's psych issues get better over time without any treatment at all. we know most kids grow out of dysphoria with only psych care. but we know that if kids take gender meds their dysphoria continues and thier pysch issues worsen
Very good points. Reminds of Black Democrats being much more moderate than the leftist Dem ideology. I just wrote a piece on this. Interesting factoid (Pew): 66% of Black Americans believe that sex is immutable and assigned at birth.
https://michaelmohr.substack.com/p/some-surprising-data-on-black-americans
I'm looking forward to tomorrow's article. I have always believed that the way to make a change is to win hearts and minds. Trans activists seem insistent on doing the opposite, and grabbing for power. The already-in-motion backlash to that approach will cost us all. Mostly those of us in the killing field, between the opposing camps. There is no place to hide here, and no chance to change hardened hearts in my lifetime. An opportunity lost
I’d sum it up this way : adults who want to be transsexual ( medical or non medical) go for it. But do not say you can change gender and make the rest of us believe this fairy tale no surgery before 25. My sister begged for a hysterectomy bc of painful periods years ago and couldn’t get one. We have come a long way baby in a bad way.