We were told this multiple times by therapists and at least one school counselor. “Your child might commit suicide or run away and become homeless”. Our son occasionally brings it up with a sort of taunting attitude. I hope the Times prints your letter. I have written several times asking that they do a piece on parents that includes those of us who disagree with the ideology as well as desistors and detransitioners….crickets.
It’s also time to do a deep dive into how gender nonconforming children have historically survived puberty, without medical or surgical intervention, or without affirmation, for all of human history.
this is such a glaringly obvious fault in the trans mythology.
when in the entire history of humanity have we seen massive suicides by children whose "innate opposite sex identities" are rejected? Never that's when.
Friggin idiocy of trans ideology ... and people believe this tripe.
If this is a true medical diagnosis, requiring medical and surgical intervention, in order to prevent death (only by suicide), surely it would be seen all over the world, throughout all of human history.
I truly hope they run this. It’s beyond unethical what is printed about this issue over and over again. What ever happened to campaigns like “it gets better”? Why this insistence that these kids will harm themselves, when everyone knows that insisting on it makes it more likely. Some days it feels like a dark conspiracy to get more kids into this precarious situation in order to raise money off their demise. It’s so so so sick.
It should be regarded as abusive and unprofessional for medical practioners to use the potential for suicide in this scaremongering way and there should be strong medical guidelines that say so.
No. Warning that things being done specifically to target a class of people could plausibly cause them great harm as people is not st all scaremongering. It is simply telling people that great harm is being done, and encouraged them to reconsider their support for the actions causing this harm if they care at all for those lives.
Yes, great harm is being done to them by trans 'health care' and the very same people who are telling lies about not being medicalised and mutilated causing suicide. No health care service should do invasive surgery on healthy bodies or interfere with a young person's endocrine system.
The transition that you describe as damage is what they want, to bring their bodies into closer conformity with what they want. Dysphoria does cause great harm, and fixing things died at least stop things from getting worse.
Other people might not want them to do this, but well, they do not get to have a vote. You do not have a right to demand that your children or your relatives or your neighbours become only the types of people you want them to become. You are certainly not legitimately aggrieved by their free choice; you are just limited.
No such thing as gender dysphoria. There are only 2 sexes and people can mimic the opposite sex if they want to. No child's endocrine system should be interfered with and no doctor should do surgery on the healthy bodies of adults or children. Yes, including cosmetic surgery. It's barbaric and bonkers. What ever happened to being perfect as we are?
Starting by saying that some class of being does not exist because it does not fit your incorrect view of sex and gender among humans, even despite people who belong to that class clearly say that it does, is a choice that reveals your disinterest in serious discussion. You do not like trans people or take their well being seriously, and that is your choice.
As for bodies being perfect … eliminating any possibility for self-improvement being ethical is a weird choice. Should I regain the 60 pounds I lost?
The suicide issue is a perfect self-perpetuating storm I don't know how we're going to get out of. It's the ultimate shield and defense against any concerns about dangerous side effects and harms from the treatments and weak evidence. People are - understandably - too afraid to take the risk. Them Then the constant claims end up creating the suicidal ideation that is needed to prop up the claims that keep people afraid, allow for the harms to continue, and shield people from any guilt or doubts about their decisions or role in this. I really don't know how we're going to break this cycle.
The NYT has degenerated from a trusted, even-keeled, 'untouchable' news publication to a bastion of propaganda, bona fide misinformation and destructive ideology disseminator.
I had not read Williams' NYT editorial, but I just went over it, and this jumped out:
<<She’s angry, scared and hurt that the American system of democracy that we so put on a pedestal didn’t work to protect her.>>
HB 1 was enacted by a democratically elected legislature and signed by a democratically elected governor. A majority of the federal judges--at all levels--who heard the case agreed to let the law stand. Judging from the polls, if a national referendum on the topic were held, HB 1 would be a favorite to win it. So it seems to me democracy worked fine here...it just didn't work in Williams' favor.
When my daughter was going through hell because of SA and stalking, she briefly started to bind, partially out of fear and partially out of "it's what all the sport girls were doing" (or at least a lot of them in her sport at the time). I sat her down and told her we're NOT giving in to what the bastard did to her. She's going to show everyone what she's made of by surviving as a huge middle finger to the world that tells people to curl up and die when bad things happen. I told her she's tough and she's going to not only outlive her enemies, but by the grace of God she's going to thrive. And I promised her I'd hunt that guy down and stand on the necks of the jurisdictions responsible for serving his warrant. It took years, but we did it. She's not trans, she accepts herself as she is and appreciates her body for keeping her alive. Now we're all struggling with her brother, which is another matter, but my point is: life hurts, and sometimes a person wants to curl up and call it a day from all the hurt, but we don't help anyone, especially kids, when we tell them that's what they're going to do or that's the "normal" response. It's normal to hurt, but if we want kids to live, we have to tell them they're strong and they can outlive the pain.
Hey Lisa, I don’t know if you remember this, but in the early 2000s I remember going to some LGB health thing and they were telling us to tell parents of teens to ACCEPT them to prevent suicide. Like don’t kick them out of the house for being gay. “Do you want a gay son, or a dead son?” Indeed I had a lot of friends & acquaintances from the gay 90s and 2000s who did die by suicide. Disproportional ex-Mormons. 😢 it actually kind of sucked to be gay back then. I think this whole gestalt is still in the cultural milieu of the LGBTQ+etc community today… although the world has changed in much of the country shockingly quickly.
right but no one in that generation was saying, and your gay son needs his testicles removed and penis inverted into a permanent wound (what a horribly misogynistic view of the yoni!!!).
there's a long long distance between "don't kick out your gay son" and "sign here to consent to permanent infertility, anorgasmia, castration, and permanent prescriptions for cross sex hormones.
It's emotional blackmail designed to coerce the public into accepting "trans" as real when we all know it's a figment of their imagination and it's destroying far more people than it " helps ". Thanks ,Lisa.
We were told this multiple times by therapists and at least one school counselor. “Your child might commit suicide or run away and become homeless”. Our son occasionally brings it up with a sort of taunting attitude. I hope the Times prints your letter. I have written several times asking that they do a piece on parents that includes those of us who disagree with the ideology as well as desistors and detransitioners….crickets.
It’s also time to do a deep dive into how gender nonconforming children have historically survived puberty, without medical or surgical intervention, or without affirmation, for all of human history.
this is such a glaringly obvious fault in the trans mythology.
when in the entire history of humanity have we seen massive suicides by children whose "innate opposite sex identities" are rejected? Never that's when.
Friggin idiocy of trans ideology ... and people believe this tripe.
Where was the historical suicide epidemic before the Dutch protocol was invented/imported in the 2010s?
Exactly.
If this is a true medical diagnosis, requiring medical and surgical intervention, in order to prevent death (only by suicide), surely it would be seen all over the world, throughout all of human history.
And of course it wasn’t.
I truly hope they run this. It’s beyond unethical what is printed about this issue over and over again. What ever happened to campaigns like “it gets better”? Why this insistence that these kids will harm themselves, when everyone knows that insisting on it makes it more likely. Some days it feels like a dark conspiracy to get more kids into this precarious situation in order to raise money off their demise. It’s so so so sick.
It’s reckless, irresponsible and amoral.
It should be regarded as abusive and unprofessional for medical practioners to use the potential for suicide in this scaremongering way and there should be strong medical guidelines that say so.
No. Warning that things being done specifically to target a class of people could plausibly cause them great harm as people is not st all scaremongering. It is simply telling people that great harm is being done, and encouraged them to reconsider their support for the actions causing this harm if they care at all for those lives.
Yes, great harm is being done to them by trans 'health care' and the very same people who are telling lies about not being medicalised and mutilated causing suicide. No health care service should do invasive surgery on healthy bodies or interfere with a young person's endocrine system.
The transition that you describe as damage is what they want, to bring their bodies into closer conformity with what they want. Dysphoria does cause great harm, and fixing things died at least stop things from getting worse.
Other people might not want them to do this, but well, they do not get to have a vote. You do not have a right to demand that your children or your relatives or your neighbours become only the types of people you want them to become. You are certainly not legitimately aggrieved by their free choice; you are just limited.
No such thing as gender dysphoria. There are only 2 sexes and people can mimic the opposite sex if they want to. No child's endocrine system should be interfered with and no doctor should do surgery on the healthy bodies of adults or children. Yes, including cosmetic surgery. It's barbaric and bonkers. What ever happened to being perfect as we are?
Starting by saying that some class of being does not exist because it does not fit your incorrect view of sex and gender among humans, even despite people who belong to that class clearly say that it does, is a choice that reveals your disinterest in serious discussion. You do not like trans people or take their well being seriously, and that is your choice.
As for bodies being perfect … eliminating any possibility for self-improvement being ethical is a weird choice. Should I regain the 60 pounds I lost?
The suicide issue is a perfect self-perpetuating storm I don't know how we're going to get out of. It's the ultimate shield and defense against any concerns about dangerous side effects and harms from the treatments and weak evidence. People are - understandably - too afraid to take the risk. Them Then the constant claims end up creating the suicidal ideation that is needed to prop up the claims that keep people afraid, allow for the harms to continue, and shield people from any guilt or doubts about their decisions or role in this. I really don't know how we're going to break this cycle.
All the rules go out the window when it comes to trans. Trans exceptionalism rules instead.
Thank you, Lisa!
We will be celebrating if NYT does publish your letter.
No chance they’ll this, right? I applaud your tenacity.
The NYT has degenerated from a trusted, even-keeled, 'untouchable' news publication to a bastion of propaganda, bona fide misinformation and destructive ideology disseminator.
Rates of suicidality track with populations with similar mental illness morbidity rates (anxiety, depression, bipolar, PD, etc.).
Great letter, thanks for sharing.
I had not read Williams' NYT editorial, but I just went over it, and this jumped out:
<<She’s angry, scared and hurt that the American system of democracy that we so put on a pedestal didn’t work to protect her.>>
HB 1 was enacted by a democratically elected legislature and signed by a democratically elected governor. A majority of the federal judges--at all levels--who heard the case agreed to let the law stand. Judging from the polls, if a national referendum on the topic were held, HB 1 would be a favorite to win it. So it seems to me democracy worked fine here...it just didn't work in Williams' favor.
So has this this letter been published? I don't see it in the Times.
When my daughter was going through hell because of SA and stalking, she briefly started to bind, partially out of fear and partially out of "it's what all the sport girls were doing" (or at least a lot of them in her sport at the time). I sat her down and told her we're NOT giving in to what the bastard did to her. She's going to show everyone what she's made of by surviving as a huge middle finger to the world that tells people to curl up and die when bad things happen. I told her she's tough and she's going to not only outlive her enemies, but by the grace of God she's going to thrive. And I promised her I'd hunt that guy down and stand on the necks of the jurisdictions responsible for serving his warrant. It took years, but we did it. She's not trans, she accepts herself as she is and appreciates her body for keeping her alive. Now we're all struggling with her brother, which is another matter, but my point is: life hurts, and sometimes a person wants to curl up and call it a day from all the hurt, but we don't help anyone, especially kids, when we tell them that's what they're going to do or that's the "normal" response. It's normal to hurt, but if we want kids to live, we have to tell them they're strong and they can outlive the pain.
LA Times is irresponsibly peddling the suicide narrative right now as well. https://archive.ph/noHaA
Hey Lisa, I don’t know if you remember this, but in the early 2000s I remember going to some LGB health thing and they were telling us to tell parents of teens to ACCEPT them to prevent suicide. Like don’t kick them out of the house for being gay. “Do you want a gay son, or a dead son?” Indeed I had a lot of friends & acquaintances from the gay 90s and 2000s who did die by suicide. Disproportional ex-Mormons. 😢 it actually kind of sucked to be gay back then. I think this whole gestalt is still in the cultural milieu of the LGBTQ+etc community today… although the world has changed in much of the country shockingly quickly.
right but no one in that generation was saying, and your gay son needs his testicles removed and penis inverted into a permanent wound (what a horribly misogynistic view of the yoni!!!).
there's a long long distance between "don't kick out your gay son" and "sign here to consent to permanent infertility, anorgasmia, castration, and permanent prescriptions for cross sex hormones.
It's emotional blackmail designed to coerce the public into accepting "trans" as real when we all know it's a figment of their imagination and it's destroying far more people than it " helps ". Thanks ,Lisa.