I am okay with Therapy First having people with whom I staunchly disagree at their conference In fact, I welcome it. I want to hear what they have to say, and I can only hope they are willing to listen to what others are saying, and perhaps question their long-held bizarre belief in a "trans" child. I am not afraid to hear what might be some very bad ideas. I would listen with an open mind in case they have something of merit to say, or at least provide insight into why they think what they think.
I agree that tribalism, whatever its survival benefits, can be quite detrimental when it leads to the refusal to listen to, or engage with, those outside of the tribe.
But I have to say it one more time. Saying that there are indeed "trans" kids who must be chemically and/or surgically altered and referred to as the opposite sex in order to have any semblance of happiness is not a "middle ground." It is an extreme position with loads of negative consequences, and no positives. It is as absurd as saying some segregation of the races - just in pools and water fountains perhaps, but not in schools or theatres - is a "middle ground" position. The position that appears to be in the middle is not always the true "middle ground."
This bears repeating because the very notion that some special ("magical") people are born with these needs (the binding or tucking, puberty blockers, chemicals, surgeries designed to make someone appear the opposite sex, regardless of the functional limitations and health issues these "treatments" cause, and the lies - referring to and treating these special individuals as if they are the opposite sex) is what got us to this terrible place.
Those who don't conform to stereotypes deserve to be accepted with their own preferences for clothing, hairstyles, mannerisms, romantic partners, etc., and should never be encouraged to believe they are "really" the opposite sex because of that non-conformity. And those who feel out of place for a variety of other reasons - autism, anxiety, trauma, etc. - also deserve compassion and acceptance, and should never be encouraged to believe they are "really" the opposite sex because they think they are or will be better accepted or received as the opposite sex.
I think it’s a smart move for Therapy First to include some of the pro-affirming therapists … as I understand it, this is not a conference intended for lay people or parents. They should be able to have a professional debate among themselves and let the good ideas win and the bad ideas perish.
More to Lisa’s point- you have to listen to what they have to say and make sure you have an accurate understanding of their views to know if you disagree and what you disagree about in the first place!
I can relate to your feelings, having not settled into any one tribe within the broader gender critical one. And thank you for reminding me of Paul Simon’s brilliant song, which does indeed seem perfect for our current moment.
You can’t understand why or how clinicians arrive at ideas and practices if you refuse to engage them in a professional capacity. The path out and forward emerges in that engagement. I wish more people could understand the Object Relational psychoanalytic concept of the oscillation between Paranoid Schizoid (black/white, either/or, only one of us lives, organizing experience of the world and people into good and bad, fantasies of omnipotence, here and now focused) and the Depressive position (grieving what isn’t and can never be, rupture and repair, sitting in the tension of paradox, integrating parts into a whole, the capacity to tolerate change happening over time).
THANK-YOU, Lisa!....Honestly, your words here, are about 99.9% exact match to my own words in my head....Really....Seriously....// This comment was "removed" by Yahoo, under an article about Miss North Carolina being stripped of her crown for "naughty talk" about biological males in women's sports & single sex (safe) spaces:
"Having been conceived and gestated as males, if transwomen weren't trans, then they would be men."....
How can a simple statement of simple facts of biological reality be a "violation of community guidelines"?....See what I mean?....
But to better parse the questions you're raising here, I'd say, :
Let those who can both LISTEN, and SPEAK, - POLITELY,- be allowed to listen and speak....
Let the too-loud, the too-angry, the too-crazy, the too-rude, the too-hateful, etc., let THEM be excluded and silenced.... See what I mean? We need SOME guideline & guardrails, some standards.
You and I seem to be in almost perfect alignment & agreement about the basic needs & rules to get at a working conversation....We need to allow as many valid voices as possible, while also being ready to protect all of us, by sometimes excluding as few of us as we reasonably can....
For example, I personally think that "Dr." Helen Webberley should be in PRISON. Yes, I literally think that she belongs in prison for crimes against children & humanity....She has said exactly that, on video, about ME, and my friends & family....
(No, of course, she doesn't know me personally, not by name!....)....
I'm hoping that in a few months, my "enemies" will describe me, wrongly, as an "anti-trans activist".
As a Buddhist, the Dalai Lama tells me that my ONLY "enemies" are ignorance & delusion. But my enemies are NOT ignorant and delusional PEOPLE!.... I'm sure you GROK the difference!....
Sorry for the long comment, but it's your "fault", - you inspired me to write!....
I am okay with Therapy First having people with whom I staunchly disagree at their conference In fact, I welcome it. I want to hear what they have to say, and I can only hope they are willing to listen to what others are saying, and perhaps question their long-held bizarre belief in a "trans" child. I am not afraid to hear what might be some very bad ideas. I would listen with an open mind in case they have something of merit to say, or at least provide insight into why they think what they think.
I agree that tribalism, whatever its survival benefits, can be quite detrimental when it leads to the refusal to listen to, or engage with, those outside of the tribe.
But I have to say it one more time. Saying that there are indeed "trans" kids who must be chemically and/or surgically altered and referred to as the opposite sex in order to have any semblance of happiness is not a "middle ground." It is an extreme position with loads of negative consequences, and no positives. It is as absurd as saying some segregation of the races - just in pools and water fountains perhaps, but not in schools or theatres - is a "middle ground" position. The position that appears to be in the middle is not always the true "middle ground."
This bears repeating because the very notion that some special ("magical") people are born with these needs (the binding or tucking, puberty blockers, chemicals, surgeries designed to make someone appear the opposite sex, regardless of the functional limitations and health issues these "treatments" cause, and the lies - referring to and treating these special individuals as if they are the opposite sex) is what got us to this terrible place.
Those who don't conform to stereotypes deserve to be accepted with their own preferences for clothing, hairstyles, mannerisms, romantic partners, etc., and should never be encouraged to believe they are "really" the opposite sex because of that non-conformity. And those who feel out of place for a variety of other reasons - autism, anxiety, trauma, etc. - also deserve compassion and acceptance, and should never be encouraged to believe they are "really" the opposite sex because they think they are or will be better accepted or received as the opposite sex.
I think it’s a smart move for Therapy First to include some of the pro-affirming therapists … as I understand it, this is not a conference intended for lay people or parents. They should be able to have a professional debate among themselves and let the good ideas win and the bad ideas perish.
More to Lisa’s point- you have to listen to what they have to say and make sure you have an accurate understanding of their views to know if you disagree and what you disagree about in the first place!
Thank-you, Hippiesq, your words are my words, too! EXACTLY this!....YES! KUTGW!....
Hallelujah for you Lisa Selin Davis.
Grateful for you.
Perfect.
❤️❤️❤️
One of my very favorite songs, from the man who inspired me to be a songwriter.
I can relate to your feelings, having not settled into any one tribe within the broader gender critical one. And thank you for reminding me of Paul Simon’s brilliant song, which does indeed seem perfect for our current moment.
Well, "Lola" by The Kinks, might be a little more narrowly on-topic, but....lol....
While we're at it, "Let It BE", by The Beatles, and, ok, I'll stop!...Thanks, Eliza, I agree!
This would be an amazing national anthem
You can’t understand why or how clinicians arrive at ideas and practices if you refuse to engage them in a professional capacity. The path out and forward emerges in that engagement. I wish more people could understand the Object Relational psychoanalytic concept of the oscillation between Paranoid Schizoid (black/white, either/or, only one of us lives, organizing experience of the world and people into good and bad, fantasies of omnipotence, here and now focused) and the Depressive position (grieving what isn’t and can never be, rupture and repair, sitting in the tension of paradox, integrating parts into a whole, the capacity to tolerate change happening over time).
THANK-YOU, Lisa!....Honestly, your words here, are about 99.9% exact match to my own words in my head....Really....Seriously....// This comment was "removed" by Yahoo, under an article about Miss North Carolina being stripped of her crown for "naughty talk" about biological males in women's sports & single sex (safe) spaces:
"Having been conceived and gestated as males, if transwomen weren't trans, then they would be men."....
How can a simple statement of simple facts of biological reality be a "violation of community guidelines"?....See what I mean?....
But to better parse the questions you're raising here, I'd say, :
Let those who can both LISTEN, and SPEAK, - POLITELY,- be allowed to listen and speak....
Let the too-loud, the too-angry, the too-crazy, the too-rude, the too-hateful, etc., let THEM be excluded and silenced.... See what I mean? We need SOME guideline & guardrails, some standards.
You and I seem to be in almost perfect alignment & agreement about the basic needs & rules to get at a working conversation....We need to allow as many valid voices as possible, while also being ready to protect all of us, by sometimes excluding as few of us as we reasonably can....
For example, I personally think that "Dr." Helen Webberley should be in PRISON. Yes, I literally think that she belongs in prison for crimes against children & humanity....She has said exactly that, on video, about ME, and my friends & family....
(No, of course, she doesn't know me personally, not by name!....)....
I'm hoping that in a few months, my "enemies" will describe me, wrongly, as an "anti-trans activist".
As a Buddhist, the Dalai Lama tells me that my ONLY "enemies" are ignorance & delusion. But my enemies are NOT ignorant and delusional PEOPLE!.... I'm sure you GROK the difference!....
Sorry for the long comment, but it's your "fault", - you inspired me to write!....