"But the long-term solution is viewpoint diversity, open inquiry, depolarization, respectful disagreement, and the return of curiosity. If I had a religion, these would be its tenets."
Those used to be the tenets of Unitarian Universalism, before it pivoted to "Protect trans kids!"
Off topic here, but Unitarian church down the street from a friend’s synagogue put up a big sign declaring “Zionism is racism.” It’s amazing how these two issues make things go right off the rails.
PLEASE GET A PHOTO OF THIS. That is insane. I think people don't realize that there are many populations of people living within Israel, including Palestinians.
This was some time ago. If I remember correctly it was during an important time of year too, either during the high holidays or Passover. Also, it was in a very Jewish area of Philadelphia. Absolutely uninformed and insane. I miss being part of the “blue” tribe but these two issues have really done a number on me in terms of my respect for the critical thinking skills of my co-partisans.
I’ve found more traditional religions based on thousands of years of pondering divine love for humanity come closer to this ideal. Certain practitioners have odd branches of opinions and self interest.
It’s the purity trap and self interest of some radical liberals that ended up in the libertarian land of trans humanism.
Carol Dansereau has written and spoken about exactly this. She and her husband were kicked out of their longterm Unitarian Universalist camp because of their gender-critical views. Conversation and transcript:
This could be a game changer for us Moms trying to get our friends and family to wake up. And our other children who are still ahem- allies. I don’t have a large group to talk to and most everyone I know doesn’t want to hear it. But it is coming up more and more and people encounter nieces and nephews and school kids doing this. I would LOVE to be armed with thoughtful strategies. I get so tongue tied. And all of my knowledge is overflowing so much that I don’t know where to begin.
I also don't have a ready made group to show it to, other than a group of maybe 5 or 6 really intelligent friends who are open-minded. That having been said, I write (law-related documents) for a living, and am not bad at editing. I also have all of the ideas about this subject (unlike anything else) at the ready in the forefront of my brain, so maybe I could provide useful feedback(?)
I've been thinking of proposing a discussion on this subject in my local Villages senior citizens group in Portland, Oregon, so I would find it very useful to be able to read what you have written. Some of the people in the group have grandchildren who consider themselves "transgender" or "nonbinary", so I know any discussion will be fraught.
I was thinking that she should include parents who could read and implement to see if it works for them.
I wonder if the ideal guides marries cult "deprogramming", rhetoric/linguistics and negotiation all in one specific to trans. Maybe that's more for those who have a loved one in the "cult".
I was listening to the argument that was on Sidewalk Steve's X w/ Claire (burnyourbinder) and wondered what could possibly make a dent in their "be kind" shallow thinking?
X showed me that this morning, too. The woman is so heartless in her interactions with Claire. What would have worked better? I'm pretty bad at these in-person interactions myself, but I notice if I start with asking questions, and what do you know about, and do you have any questions yourself and...things like: what if there are people who are helped and people who are harmed and there's no way to tell the difference? What policy would you make? I really would like to keep trying at this. We need a Speakers' Corner.
I do think that there are a lot of people who just assume that we have solid diagnostic criteria for gender identity and of course doctors would never prescribe powerful drugs and surgeries if they weren’t sure. I used to believe that too before I ran across Jesse Singal’s work. It’s a comfortable (if incorrect) viewpoint and it lines up nicely with the desire to be compassionate to oppressed minorities. I think this is probably the most promising avenue in (and would also explain why Jesse has gotten so much hatred- they know his work is very dangerous in this regard).
I think a history of the concept of gender is a great idea, a discussion. As much as I would love to disappear the notion of gender identity, it's not going to happen.
It is a theory, a belief system, and can be cult-like.
Transgender Trend has some great resources for schools in UK.
In the UK we can claim a bit of success on discussing gender etc. But it still comes down to a cross purposes street fight between orthodoxy (right belief) and orthopraxis (right action). Two of us have tried to tie higher principles into a meticulous family message group analysis called “Jiggling dead Tweets”. I can’t claim it’s solved it, but it’s been great to have published it for the world to read.
"But the long-term solution is viewpoint diversity, open inquiry, depolarization, respectful disagreement, and the return of curiosity. If I had a religion, these would be its tenets."
Those used to be the tenets of Unitarian Universalism, before it pivoted to "Protect trans kids!"
Off topic here, but Unitarian church down the street from a friend’s synagogue put up a big sign declaring “Zionism is racism.” It’s amazing how these two issues make things go right off the rails.
PLEASE GET A PHOTO OF THIS. That is insane. I think people don't realize that there are many populations of people living within Israel, including Palestinians.
This was some time ago. If I remember correctly it was during an important time of year too, either during the high holidays or Passover. Also, it was in a very Jewish area of Philadelphia. Absolutely uninformed and insane. I miss being part of the “blue” tribe but these two issues have really done a number on me in terms of my respect for the critical thinking skills of my co-partisans.
That was my first thought too.
I’ve found more traditional religions based on thousands of years of pondering divine love for humanity come closer to this ideal. Certain practitioners have odd branches of opinions and self interest.
It’s the purity trap and self interest of some radical liberals that ended up in the libertarian land of trans humanism.
There was actually someone in my UU congregation who gave a guest sermon exhorting transhumanism! This was in the early 2010s.
Carol Dansereau has written and spoken about exactly this. She and her husband were kicked out of their longterm Unitarian Universalist camp because of their gender-critical views. Conversation and transcript:
https://caroldansereau.substack.com/p/my-interview-on-transmuted
I could volunteer to read it as an editor but I don't have a group to share it with so could not report on how well it works as a discussion guide.
Why did the non-profit who commissioned this guide refuse to release it? That’s the question I most urgently want answered!
Same here.
This could be a game changer for us Moms trying to get our friends and family to wake up. And our other children who are still ahem- allies. I don’t have a large group to talk to and most everyone I know doesn’t want to hear it. But it is coming up more and more and people encounter nieces and nephews and school kids doing this. I would LOVE to be armed with thoughtful strategies. I get so tongue tied. And all of my knowledge is overflowing so much that I don’t know where to begin.
Thanks Lisa.
I also don't have a ready made group to show it to, other than a group of maybe 5 or 6 really intelligent friends who are open-minded. That having been said, I write (law-related documents) for a living, and am not bad at editing. I also have all of the ideas about this subject (unlike anything else) at the ready in the forefront of my brain, so maybe I could provide useful feedback(?)
I've been thinking of proposing a discussion on this subject in my local Villages senior citizens group in Portland, Oregon, so I would find it very useful to be able to read what you have written. Some of the people in the group have grandchildren who consider themselves "transgender" or "nonbinary", so I know any discussion will be fraught.
Hi Lisa
I’m a PhD student studying polarisation and depolarisation - also a trans-kid parent. I’d love to look at your guide!
I was thinking that she should include parents who could read and implement to see if it works for them.
I wonder if the ideal guides marries cult "deprogramming", rhetoric/linguistics and negotiation all in one specific to trans. Maybe that's more for those who have a loved one in the "cult".
I was listening to the argument that was on Sidewalk Steve's X w/ Claire (burnyourbinder) and wondered what could possibly make a dent in their "be kind" shallow thinking?
X showed me that this morning, too. The woman is so heartless in her interactions with Claire. What would have worked better? I'm pretty bad at these in-person interactions myself, but I notice if I start with asking questions, and what do you know about, and do you have any questions yourself and...things like: what if there are people who are helped and people who are harmed and there's no way to tell the difference? What policy would you make? I really would like to keep trying at this. We need a Speakers' Corner.
I do think that there are a lot of people who just assume that we have solid diagnostic criteria for gender identity and of course doctors would never prescribe powerful drugs and surgeries if they weren’t sure. I used to believe that too before I ran across Jesse Singal’s work. It’s a comfortable (if incorrect) viewpoint and it lines up nicely with the desire to be compassionate to oppressed minorities. I think this is probably the most promising avenue in (and would also explain why Jesse has gotten so much hatred- they know his work is very dangerous in this regard).
How about a little viewpoint diversity for Republicans?
I am interested. I am working on a teacher training and I need and have ideas.
I’m happy to review it. I’m a lawyer in liberal Northern California.
I think a history of the concept of gender is a great idea, a discussion. As much as I would love to disappear the notion of gender identity, it's not going to happen.
It is a theory, a belief system, and can be cult-like.
Transgender Trend has some great resources for schools in UK.
https://www.transgendertrend.com/schools-resources/
Melissa, you might be interested in this superb essay that Donovan Cleckley wrote on the origins of the "transgender" movement:
Sexology’s Fathers
The Forgotten Roots of the Transgender Phenomenon
https://fairerdisputations.substack.com/p/sexologys-fathers
Great essay, Lisa. I always look forward to essays by Donovan.
The history of sexology is important. And then came queer theory (which unfortunately has been influential to many a female college student).
Yes, I would like to take a look at it for a class I'm putting together at my church, but need your email. Thanks!
In the UK we can claim a bit of success on discussing gender etc. But it still comes down to a cross purposes street fight between orthodoxy (right belief) and orthopraxis (right action). Two of us have tried to tie higher principles into a meticulous family message group analysis called “Jiggling dead Tweets”. I can’t claim it’s solved it, but it’s been great to have published it for the world to read.
https://nickchild.substack.com/p/jiggling-dead-tweets
Ha I originally thought this was your book and thought what a great title. Nonetheless great title and graphics
Jeez Louise, that's because I didn't put GUIDE in the title. My typos per words ratio is embarrassing.
You do have discussion in the subtitle that showed up in my mailbox, "a discussion guide". I think it's perfect that way.
What email should one use to volunteer?