Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Susan Scheid's avatar

Lisa, thank you, yet once again, for your clarity. I particularly appreciated this observation: “Part of the problem with handling gender medicine in the courts, instead of figuring out how to properly regulate it via medical organizations and government health agencies that care about patient health, is that we end up battling ideologies instead of science. One man and his acceptance of radical ideas matters more than a systematic evidence review.”

I look forward very much to your article on the issue of bans. I have a personal view, which probably most aligns with that of Leor Sapir, but I am not nearly as well informed as you are on what needs to be considered here.

There is, BTW, for those who haven’t seen it, an excellent article in Forbes summarizing, among other things, the pulling back in Europe precisely because of the shoddy state of the science: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2023/06/06/increasing-number-of-european-nations-adopt-a-more-cautious-approach-to-gender-affirming-care-among-minors/

In the last few days, I have made some inroads with additional friends on my D side of the aisle. What continues to be striking, though, even among those who are ordinarily skeptical of our profit driven Rube Goldberg health care “system,” is their willingness in this one instance to take it on trust that health care professionals know what they are doing and are basing it on sound science. I suspect the breathtaking ignorance and ideological illogic displayed by this judge will further exacerbate the problem.

Expand full comment
for the kids's avatar

The US could in principle restrict treatment to experimental studies, just like other countries....but let's look at what US studies have been done recently.

There's Olson et al., where they didn't bother to diagnose the young people in the study but just measured how long they stayed socially transitioned, there's Tordoff et al. (2022) where the majority of kids ended up medicalized but weren't seen to improve, and then there is Chen et al., 2023, which Singal discusses in detail, which had announced several outcome measures would be checked but which has only reported on 2 of the 8... (what happened to the other indicators they measured in the 2 years?) and two kids of the 315 committed suicide.

So yes, you could have US kids only being treated in studies, but the current studies are not protecting the young people right now (they or rather their parents are giving informed consent to clinicians who believe in the affirmative model and who at least write papers which are misleading and/or incorrect) and they are not being done well enough for anything to be learned. If an exception is made for studies, how do you make sure those in the studies are giving true *informed* consent (which rules out anyone listening to affirming clinicians as they are misinformed themselves). And how do you justify sterilizing young people to find out who might be helped or harmed by this? Minors?

The US has refused to look at facts, to do systematic reviews of the evidence, aside from Florida (and the Endocrine Society made recommendations which were stronger than the evidence seems to support, see the great article by Block in BMJ on this). So how do you keep every affirmative clinician from just saying they are doing a study and then business (and there's a lot!$$$$) as usual?

I don't have answers, would love to hear what you think. I don't think the answer is business as usual but I don't know how to deal with all the lies, bad faith and misinformation, I'm astounded they have gone on this long.

Expand full comment
52 more comments...

No posts