60 Comments
User's avatar
dollarsandsense's avatar

Describing the instituting of pronouns etc as a step in the slow boiling of the frog is brilliant.

It’s so hard to convey to people how each step leads to the next, until we’re cheering teenagers cutting off their breasts. I might try to use that image next time, thanks.

Melissa R.'s avatar

Exactly. When Dems are told that teen girls are cutting off breasts, going on testosterone, and that puberty blockers are not simply a pause button, they double down. They say it isn't happening. If the irrefutable evidence is shown, they say: "We support trans kids; we support these life-saving interventions."

for the kids's avatar

This is why we Dems lost the election.

" It is wrong to force people to deny reality in order to belong."

Trump asks it of politicians. We Dems asked it of children in kindergarten up, on job applications, of doctors, in sports, prisons, on our daily interactions with others.

With harm in all the ways you describe and have been describing for years.

Thank you and good luck on the book!

Frogmom's avatar

As always- right to the heart of the matter. I can’t shake how betrayed I feel from all sides in our country’s political ping pong match.

alewifey's avatar

ICE is literally not doing anything they weren't doing under Obama at a MUCH greater rate (the Obama administration was responsible for 3.1 million deportations)—and is ••not•• doing, and/or doing much less of, some of the more infamous things that Obama's ICE ••DID•• do (like "kids in cages", all of the most notorious photos of which are from 2014... who was president in 2014?).

The main difference is just all the dark money getting all those throngs of posh omnicausers who don't have to work for a living out into the streets "protesting", and attempting to physically block, federal law enforcement operations that they know nothing about.

.

Speaking of knowing nothing, the mainstream media's refusal to report on the truly heinous crimes committed by many of the 13 million illegals that Biden allowed to just stroll unvetted over the border is pretty damned heinous, too.

This is EVERY BIT is muffled by the blanket of censorship, and every bit as rigidly enforced by cancel culture, as trying to report anything on the many horrors, abuses and crimes of "trans".

When the New York Times won't even carry the story of a Woman who ded when Her HEAD WAS SET ON FIRE by one of Biden's illegals on the New York subway, it's really long past time to start asking some very pointed questions about exactly how deep the rot goes and exactly how much money (and whose) goes into "curating" the narrative.

Lisa Simeone's avatar

Quote: “ICE is literally not doing anything they weren't doing under Obama at a MUCH greater rate”

FALSE.

Obama didn’t send armed, masked thugs into the streets to hunt people like prey and assault, kidnap, and murder them. There’s no fucking comparison.

Anon232's avatar

Did we have sanctuary cities then? Isn't that a big part for the public spectacles?

Eleganta's avatar

It's been an incredibly useful political football for both sides for as long as we've been alive.

It has nothing to do with people living responsible, peaceful lives. If it were, immigration reform would have been enacted decades ago.

It has everything to do with using people's lives to win elections.

Stosh Wychulus's avatar

This is like going to an old school carnival where each side offers their game of chance , and for $1 you get three balls to try to knock punks off a shelf and win a giant stuffed animal. The punks are leaded at the bottom and while you may hit one, it just bends back and doesn't fall off. The game is rigged and not at all what it seems. The loonies of both parties are playing us for saps.

As an aside, the loyalty test in the Democratic primary to replace Pelosi is you have to declare that Isreal is committing genocide in Gaza and you support gender affirming care. This is what the Democratic party has degenerated into.

Frank Hyman's avatar

Nuremberg Trials 2027

Nina Wouk's avatar

OTOH you can't reasonably accuse Trump of doing anything with subtlety. He starts at boiling and goes as close to atom-fusion temp as possible before it stops working and he has to pivot or back off.

Lisa Selin Davis's avatar

Yes, perfectly described. He drops the frog right in the boiling water, stoking immediate outrage.

Eleganta's avatar

It's called Rich White Male Entitlement.

He doesn't care if he blows up the world. He's just getting his thrills off the fact that, as a Rich White Male, he won't be stopped.

Imagine Shirley Chisholm trying to get away with this shit.

chris gargan's avatar

Well it's a tortured analogy but the point is made. The largest difference is of course the scale of atrocity of Trump's fascist advance, and the number of people affected. The gender identitarians certainly took their agenda too far but their intention was never to destroy the lives of others. It's easy enough to see that Lisa's cases: sports inclusion, prison assignments etc. are egregiously bone headed, but they are, at the same time, exceedingly small instances and quickly correctable. And comparing it to government sponsored and endorsed murder is grotesquely inappropriate.

Lisa Selin Davis's avatar

Yes but also…the gender stuff affected thousands of people. Lots of affirmed kid suicides. The point is not to say they’re the same level of atrocity but that it’s a tactic used by “both sides.”

KateP's avatar

I agree the malicious intent is a fundamental difference between what the Trump administration does and the gender agenda, but the "number of people affected" is certainly greater with the latter. My life remains blissfully untouched by anything that's happening in Minnesota right now, and even the National Guard deployment in my own city had no effect on my family. On the other hand, what's happened with gender has affected me and my family, even if I don't have a trans-identified kid and we're not involved in athletics, or know anyone who is imprisoned. But those things are not the only ways in which the genderism phenomenon affects people.

My kids having to write their pronouns on every worksheet, their teachers teaching them that sex is a spectrum, my son being constantly "misgendered" because he has very long hair, my other son being asked by his geography teacher how he can be sure that he is a boy, and being yelled at by a "non-binary" classmate because he asked if she is a boy or a girl, my sister being mad at me because I, while talking to her on the phone, referred to her daughter's trans-identified boyfriend as "he"... Overall, the capture of education, science, the mental health profession, and the average well-meaning liberal results in compelled speech, an anti-scientific curriculum, and family rifts. I'm not saying that is the same as the damage being done by the Trump administration to the rule of law and international relations (things I incessantly warned would happen prior to the election), but they nonetheless corrode liberal society and affect nearly everyone.

dollarsandsense's avatar

Families with children in school are experiencing this more directly and intensively than people who don't have school-aged children.

Given that many schools are no longer sharing curricula with parents, this is probably far more widespread than anyone understands yet.

KateP's avatar

True, but even many people without young kids will be affected, given that by now so many people know at least one young person caught up in this. What if they don't want to use the pronouns and endorse the self-harm? They will likely be shunned by their family and friends.

dollarsandsense's avatar

Oh yes--too many of the young women my daughter grew up with have been caught up in this. But I have come across people who have no personal experience of this--and they are reading that there are only a few boys in girls sports, etc, so they think it is a minor issue.

chris gargan's avatar

No one has ever taught children that "sex is a spectrum" Sex is a biological reality. When gender identitarians talk about spectrums they're talking about the social construct of gender. Whatever your position is try and get your facts right.

Lisa Selin Davis's avatar

Wow. “No one has ever taught”…these parents have plenty of examples! I welcome disagreement here but why don’t you ask them some questions?

KateP's avatar

How do you know what my kids are being taught in school? How can you accuse me with such certainty of failing to "get my facts right"? Please check your arrogant attitude.

It would be nice if you were right, but sadly, you are woefully misinformed about what "progressive" science teachers who have "progress flags" in their classrooms spout these days, and where "progressive" discourse is on this issue more broadly. The idea that sex - yes, biological sex - is a spectrum has infiltrated not only school curricula, but scientific discourse itself. Just ask Colin Wright, or Carol Hooven. The idea that only the social construct of gender is a spectrum, a proposition with which I agree, is a pre-Butlerian relic of the past.

Dinghy Northerly's avatar

Love to see "Butlerian."

Chalky Undertaste's avatar

About 2 years ago my kid was taught explicitly-- in those precise words-- that sex is a spectrum, by both a guest speaker at an assembly, and his BIOLOGY teacher. It was a private school, but still.

Suzanne's avatar

Hmm. The organization that created the materials offered in our school districts, community organizations, churches/synagogues, is literally called Gender Spectrum: https://www.genderspectrum.org

chris gargan's avatar

Exactly. Gender is not sex. Sex is immutable. Gender is fluid. Thanks for this!

Suzanne's avatar

Happy to share - but Gender Spectrum teaches that "the biological categories of male and female are blurred...sex exists across a continuum of possibilities". It's infuriating, but they really are teaching, and have been for many years, that "sex is a spectrum".

KateP's avatar

He is fooled by their use of "gender" as a polite synonym for sex. It's honestly cute that he thinks that the gender identitarians still make a clear distinction between sex and gender. If that was the case, we would not have a problem!

Martha Jane Shoultz's avatar

Do you really think the number of people affected by gender ideology is smaller than that affected by ICE raids? Look around. All of society is affected when we tell children the man in a dress is really a woman, no different than their Mommy! And the hundreds of thousands of children and autistic young adults who have been rendered sterile and disfigured, parents whose kids died due to these ghastly "treatments" and women who have been attacked by deranged male prisoners - these are adding up quickly. And to say their intention is not to destroy the lives of others may be technically true, because it is rather about either money or seeking to affirm their paraphilias - but is that really better than ICE Agents enforcing the law, even if we feel they've gone overboard? At least ICE is getting thousands of criminals off our streets - where is the benefit to society of hideous medical experiments on the young and vulnerable?

Lisa Selin Davis's avatar

I don’t know which affected more people and ICE is far from done. But I don’t want to do the “what’s worse” thing. I want to do the “yes, this was bad when Dems did it and it’s bad now” thing, and stop making people deny reality in order to belong!

MH's avatar

It does feel like a strawman argument.

chris gargan's avatar

"Hundreds of thousands" Do you know the meaning of the word hyperbole? How about prevarication?

Martha Jane Shoultz's avatar

You evidently underestimate the explosion of trans-identified kids over the last decade. I think hundreds of thousands in the US is realistic if you look at the number of gender clinics across the country that treat several hundred kids each, plus the "adult" clinics such as Plume and Folx, which treat the college kids and vulnerable (mostly autistic, bipolar, schizophrenic, etc., young adults). If you haven't been personally affected by this scourge, I understand that you can feel this way, but I work with detransitioners and parents of deceased children every single day, so I can't close my eyes to the harm. I'm disgusted that politicians and the public in general are not outraged by the disfigurement of so many young people, the state removal of children from families who love them because the families don't want to medicalize their kids, and the several deaths of young people that have occurred due to cross-sex hormones, which the press refuses to cover.

Eleganta's avatar

"grotesquely inappropriate" Do you know the meaning of the word hyperbole? How about prevarication?

ffs

Eleganta's avatar

Your comment is shocking.

"their intention was never to destroy the lives of others."

Oh, YES, it was. Males absolutely intend to destroy the lives of girls and women. The violence they bring to our own meetings just to talk about women's issues is plenty of proof of that.

Destroying wholesale the rights of over half the entire population is NOT "exceedingly small instances." Good lord.

And they're NOT correctable AT ALL. In far too much of this country, to this day NOTHING is done about males in sports. NOTHING is done about convicted pedophiles, rapists, and the killers of girls and women terrorizing and raping incarcerated women. On the contrary, any girl or woman who complains is subjected to the worst punishment possible in the circumstances.

Women have lost careers, and girls have been permanently crippled.

And all of this is government sponsored and has led to government endorsed murder. ("Audrey Elizabeth" Hale, Anderson Lee Aldrich, Alec McKinney, "Snochia" Moseley, Jeffrey Moreno Carranza, David Warfield, Andrew Balcer, Thomas Lamb, Nikki Secondino, Leion Butler, Andre Eugene, “Karon” Fisher, David Anderson, William Whitworth, to name just a few.)

How can any of this be called "exceedingly small and quickly correctable"???

That is grotesquely inappropriate.

chris gargan's avatar

Exaggeration and lying is not an argument. Try reading what I wrote.

Martha Jane Shoultz's avatar

You're very fortunate if you're so insulated to the harms of this ideology that you think these comments are exaggeration. There is no "correction" when young people have lost body parts, and even in some cases, their lives. This is irreversible damage, plain and simple, with absolutely no benefit to anyone except the doctors and pharma companies lining their pockets.

Eleganta's avatar

He's a guy. No skin off his nose of girls and women have no women's rights anymore.

Never let it be said that the worst actors in this crap are the women on the fake "left." It's always and forever the MEN.

chris gargan's avatar

I fail to see how your misandry enhances your lack of argumentative coherence. If you return to my initial comment I simply stated that Lisa was making a tortured analogy that undermines the credibility of her position. Your distortion of my position is hardly a new tactic and is often resorted to by people who lack skills of logical argument. The name calling and bigotry are just pathetic.

Eleganta's avatar

Please point out the name-calling.

Do you mean when I called you a guy?

😅

Eleganta's avatar

Oh, is the poor widdle man worried about women fighting back against the violent patriarchal system of all recorded human history?

Your distortion of our position is hardly a new tactic and is frequently resorted to by men who lack skills of logical argument and rely on men like you simply considering yourselves smarter than women by virtue of the fact that our entire society is designed to put you in power over us.

Here's the world's tiniest violin playing "My Heart Bleeds for You."

Your blatant misogyny and desperate accusations of "misandry" and "bigotry" are just pathetic.

Enrico's avatar

Except the analogy is not tortured at all because what she is speaking of is the orwellian attitude of denying reality in order to belong to the tribe.

YOU shifted the argument to "what's worse", and even that is debatable at best.

I usually call out misandry from "feminazis" when I see it but all I see in this case is ladies being restraint in their responses to you.

Have a nice insulated day.

Eleganta's avatar

So stop exaggerating and lying.

Anon232's avatar

In fact, unfortuantely not so quickly correctable as many have dug their heels in even deeper. Hang out in Brooklyn and one will see, the cohort is not so small.

MarkS's avatar

Government sponsored and endorsed child mutilation, at the scale of thousands per year, is far worse than two murders.

Dinghy Northerly's avatar

Mmnah. I mostly agree with 70%-ish of your opinions. Gonna take the bait and push back. The citizens murdered so far are collateral damage for a despotic turn in governance. Let's not play the "who cares, there are only two... five? eleven? men playing in NCAA women's" game.

chris gargan's avatar

Which branch of government is specifically sponsoring child mutilation?

Jenny Poyer Ackerman's avatar

100%. This is the second great analysis of our political moment that I've read this morning, the first being Justin Vassallo's in the Liberal Patriot. Lisa's is more succinct and just as spot-on.

Susan Scheid's avatar

Beautifully observed, Lisa. Thank you.

MH's avatar

If you're going to talk about ICE then you need to also talk about the spins by media etc. People in these comments are using phrases like "masked thugs" "hunt people like prey" "kidnap" . That is some serious hyperbole. If people really think this way then of course they are going to see images differently. Just like the 5 year old boy that went viral. You've got the MSM & social media saying he was kidnapped and detained when in reality the boys dad ran as ICE approached. So the agent stayed with the boy to make sure he was safe. On Friday, the Arizona AG stated that citizens were allowed to fire at ICE if they felt threatened in anyway. Something about AZ stand your ground laws. I'm sorry but wtf? Pettiness part of an anti ice watch group. He came with a gun and two magazines. As tragic as this shooting was it didn't have to happen. Nowhere in this article does it mention that ice agents have zero cooperation from law enforcement in sanctuary cities. If your car or hotel is surrounded by agitators wanting you dead what does everyone expect? These issues btw are not present in any city that chooses to cooperate with federal law enforcement. Under Obama about 65 people died under ICE. Raids were conducted in the dark at night or early morning. CNN has footage of how those raids went. No outrage there. This all started because people just hate Trump.

Elaine Fraser's avatar

You have shown great courage and women everywhere salute you …keep going

Elaine Fraser's avatar

Who in US will call her out on this … writing from Scotland and would like to know if she will ever be confronted by anyone about the hypocracy .. reading the book on how Biden was allowed to stand for election - authors say Democrats gaslit the nation about his competency . Suppose if you compel public in speech etc hiding his decline comes easy … here in UK we’re not out of gender woods yet but there is a light we can see .. keep going USA realists you have allies across the world .. all our children deserve better

Lisa Selin Davis's avatar

Do you mean AOC? Nobody would call her out but us, and we’re ignored for the most part, except by the republicans. I finally see a little movement from them in terms of dissenting. But not much.

LEP's avatar

The irony is too much.

Heather Chapman's avatar

I am glad to be reminded of that De Becker quote:

“Actual predators don’t announce themselves; they create systems that normalize the unimaginable and abhorrent.”

-- Gavin de Becker, well-known security expert & author of the book "The Gift of Fear"

Now we have public figures (Trans Allies) who openly tell emotionally disturbed and impressionable young people that gender doctors can transform them into somebody else using drugs and surgery.

They tell them that to believe you were born in the "wrong body" is sane and natural and that "The Science" proves it.

Isn't it interesting how closely the above actions match the strategy of a predator trying to use another human as an object to pleasure his or her ego?

Is it so hard to see why a frustrated trans-identified man who cannot "pass" as a woman may well wish to live vicariously through the medical sex change of a beautiful effeminate boy?

Plenty of hard evidence to contradict this "born in the wrong body" dogma exists and has been demonstrated with high-quality evidence reviews, so well-meaning ignorance is less of an excuse than it used to be.