One more vid of a new doc I thought was very well done on European Detransitioners earlier this month, hosted by Róisín Michaux well worth listening to:
"but it’s impossible to ignore a the chorus of people who’ve been humming this tune—or caterwauling it—for years, including liberals, feminists, gay people and old-school transsexuals."
Came away from this feeling pretty darn overwhelmed by this firehose of news . . . How does one make responsible contributions that are ultimately "good" additions to this cultural soup that we're all part of, simmering away, steadily giving off our (presumably) unique flavours while simultaneously being saturated by the melange of what comes from all our fellow ingredients?
Check out Mary Harrington's recent. It's no longer "the current thing" trending on the internet, it's a "thing current", a wave of news which you don't post about, it posts you. The news compels you to comment in a mode that reveals yourself and incentivizes saying nothing of actual importance about the actual events.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but this shows the disastrous idiocy of conflating conversion therapy for sexual orientation with exploratory gender therapy. Conversion therapy for sexual orientation has been buoyed by this, rather than successfully stigmatizing out of existence exploratory therapy, watchful waiting and non affirming therapeutic approaches.
Does anyone know whether there are actually therapists engaged in versions of conversation therapy for trans-identified youth that we would recognize as the bad kind that should definitely be discontinued? I mean, it has to have happened, right? So I’m wondering what we know about how prevalent that kind of thing is versus how much “conversion therapy” bans are just making exploratory talk about gender impossible or dangerous for the therapist?
Usually, when people advanced this idea, they are thinking of Ken Zucker‘s work, trying to get kids feeling comfortable in their traditional, gender role, not just their body.
Yeah, it’s like, there’s shock therapy against gender nonconformity, there’s trying to talk people out of gnc, and then there’s trying to talk to people about all the possibilities including maybe not needing to become a lifelong pharma patient. I wish I knew how coming each actually is right now.
An extended interview with a professional medical ethicist familiar with the field of psychiatry's history might be useful about now. We live in a country founded on freedom of speech, which protects even destructive speech (with very, very NARROW exceptions made for cases of direct incitement to violent not-speech, i.e. the terrorists or vigilantes' veto).
So, here's the problem, I think: We "gender criticals" who perceive "trans" as a threat to hard-won gay rights also feel (rightfully) threatened by a therapist's freedom to "affirm" her clients' belief in a christian doctrine that calls same-sex attraction a sin. But we must contend with the fact that we too demand for "our side" the freedom for "non-affirming" therapists to "affirm" or "explore" the thoughts of any clients who doubt this belief in the concept of "trans" (i.e. a "gendered soul" that doesn't match his or her body's "accoutrement" of sexual organs.).
But although same-sex attraction was removed from the DSM decades ago (depathologized), we may have to tolerate a rise of those who question its moral status in our culture. After all, our western societies marginalized those who see gay sex as sinful long ago, justifying it with a scientific consensus that being gay is "natural and healthy" (bolstered by more material evidence than other theories currently dominating establishment science, BTW.), if we hope to preserve our own freedom to challenge the TRA's assertion that "trans" is also "natural and healthy." (Been listening to a bit of Nadine Strossen's talk about Heterodox Academy. I recommend it for a useful "panning back" exercise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyyt6B-2dKo
Remember, it's so darn easy to rationalize away our own hypocrisy, which is encapsulated in this expression: "Free speech for me, but not for thee." The battle of ideas that "the most radical of ideas" sets in motion may be ugly, emotionally painful, and at times may even ignite extreme disruptions in our lives, but it's still waaay better than granting any individual or authority limitless power to coerce anyone into silence.
I've actually always been on the side of allowing conversion therapy for gays to exist as long as everyone knows that's what it is and it isn't abusive. I don't want parents sending their kids to a therapist only to have them secretly trying to convince them not to be gay, but if a therapist has some kind of, say, religious approach to convincing a kid to be celibate or try to live heterosexually, and that's what the parent wants, that's fine to me. The problem is with shock therapy or some Clockwork Orange type stuff. Personally I always used to fantasize about being sent away to some kind of But I'm a Cheerleader camp... :D
Here’s one more upcoming event of interest:
https://can-sg.org/2025/10/06/are-academics-allowed-to-talk-about-sex/
I will add!
One more vid of a new doc I thought was very well done on European Detransitioners earlier this month, hosted by Róisín Michaux well worth listening to:
https://www.youtube.com/live/SRghrltCikk?si=uYgNTiNv9q21xBqR
Thank you!
"but it’s impossible to ignore a the chorus of people who’ve been humming this tune—or caterwauling it—for years, including liberals, feminists, gay people and old-school transsexuals."
And doctors!!!! Gender ones, even!
Came away from this feeling pretty darn overwhelmed by this firehose of news . . . How does one make responsible contributions that are ultimately "good" additions to this cultural soup that we're all part of, simmering away, steadily giving off our (presumably) unique flavours while simultaneously being saturated by the melange of what comes from all our fellow ingredients?
Check out Mary Harrington's recent. It's no longer "the current thing" trending on the internet, it's a "thing current", a wave of news which you don't post about, it posts you. The news compels you to comment in a mode that reveals yourself and incentivizes saying nothing of actual importance about the actual events.
I loved One to One! He had to scale back his activism... Loved seeing him perform in concert, wow!
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but this shows the disastrous idiocy of conflating conversion therapy for sexual orientation with exploratory gender therapy. Conversion therapy for sexual orientation has been buoyed by this, rather than successfully stigmatizing out of existence exploratory therapy, watchful waiting and non affirming therapeutic approaches.
Does anyone know whether there are actually therapists engaged in versions of conversation therapy for trans-identified youth that we would recognize as the bad kind that should definitely be discontinued? I mean, it has to have happened, right? So I’m wondering what we know about how prevalent that kind of thing is versus how much “conversion therapy” bans are just making exploratory talk about gender impossible or dangerous for the therapist?
Usually, when people advanced this idea, they are thinking of Ken Zucker‘s work, trying to get kids feeling comfortable in their traditional, gender role, not just their body.
Yeah, it’s like, there’s shock therapy against gender nonconformity, there’s trying to talk people out of gnc, and then there’s trying to talk to people about all the possibilities including maybe not needing to become a lifelong pharma patient. I wish I knew how coming each actually is right now.
An extended interview with a professional medical ethicist familiar with the field of psychiatry's history might be useful about now. We live in a country founded on freedom of speech, which protects even destructive speech (with very, very NARROW exceptions made for cases of direct incitement to violent not-speech, i.e. the terrorists or vigilantes' veto).
So, here's the problem, I think: We "gender criticals" who perceive "trans" as a threat to hard-won gay rights also feel (rightfully) threatened by a therapist's freedom to "affirm" her clients' belief in a christian doctrine that calls same-sex attraction a sin. But we must contend with the fact that we too demand for "our side" the freedom for "non-affirming" therapists to "affirm" or "explore" the thoughts of any clients who doubt this belief in the concept of "trans" (i.e. a "gendered soul" that doesn't match his or her body's "accoutrement" of sexual organs.).
But although same-sex attraction was removed from the DSM decades ago (depathologized), we may have to tolerate a rise of those who question its moral status in our culture. After all, our western societies marginalized those who see gay sex as sinful long ago, justifying it with a scientific consensus that being gay is "natural and healthy" (bolstered by more material evidence than other theories currently dominating establishment science, BTW.), if we hope to preserve our own freedom to challenge the TRA's assertion that "trans" is also "natural and healthy." (Been listening to a bit of Nadine Strossen's talk about Heterodox Academy. I recommend it for a useful "panning back" exercise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyyt6B-2dKo
Remember, it's so darn easy to rationalize away our own hypocrisy, which is encapsulated in this expression: "Free speech for me, but not for thee." The battle of ideas that "the most radical of ideas" sets in motion may be ugly, emotionally painful, and at times may even ignite extreme disruptions in our lives, but it's still waaay better than granting any individual or authority limitless power to coerce anyone into silence.
I've actually always been on the side of allowing conversion therapy for gays to exist as long as everyone knows that's what it is and it isn't abusive. I don't want parents sending their kids to a therapist only to have them secretly trying to convince them not to be gay, but if a therapist has some kind of, say, religious approach to convincing a kid to be celibate or try to live heterosexually, and that's what the parent wants, that's fine to me. The problem is with shock therapy or some Clockwork Orange type stuff. Personally I always used to fantasize about being sent away to some kind of But I'm a Cheerleader camp... :D