Thank you, Lisa and Alejandra! And thank you for sharing the Pamela Paul opinion. I've written in thanking her for her well-researched and thoughtful piece.
There are now 1.5K comments to Pamela Paul’s article, and the article is still open to comments. Pamela Paul has replied to one, and her reply is excellent both tone and substance. The comment is from “LGB” who is expressing concern about sexual orientation being grouped together under the rubric of LGBTQ+ (I am unable to cut and paste the comment and reply, but it’s easy to find—just look under NYT Replies.) Many responders to LGB’s comment are hostile, which makes Paul’s sensitivity and willingness to listen all the more important. Paul is definitely modeling here exactly the kind of open conversation we need to have. May it take hold!
The Paul piece is IMMENSE. Grateful thanks to all those who stepped forward and are included in this article, and no doubt many others who worked hard behind the scenes to offer research and guidance. More of this please! 🙏🙏🙏
I am nearly in tears. sorry you weren't the one to write this but it feels like the first day in a halfway house after leaving an abusive partner. I expect a few more go-rounds with backlash etc but please let it be possible to at least discuss this now.
FYI: you can now comment on the Paul piece (on the web version—the app seems not to have the option. I have done so, with this comment: I want to extend my grateful thanks to Pamela Paul for this well-researched, thoughtful article. I am a lifelong, mostly progressive, Democrat, and I have become increasingly concerned about the unwillingness of so many people—and elected officials and candidates—to engage honestly and openly with these issues. Out of that concern, I have worked hard to educate myself broadly and deeply, and to engage in difficult conversations with friends and neighbors to encourage a more multi-faceted view. Paul’s article offers us all another chance to do that, and,together, to wrest this issue out of the hands of those across the political spectrum intent on weaponizing it, so we can arrive at humane approaches and solutions for all the children and families who are affected, and for society at large.
Here is what is so amazing about the NYT piece, many of my friends who weren't 'quite yet' on board with what I was telling them about our own daughter emailed me the article today! Friends who won't go near the debate because they don't want to believe a true story or aren't 'couldn't be bothered' to learn more. They emailed me the article! That is a huge win here. I sent them thankful replies for thinking of us, reading the article and appreciating it. Anyone else awash in emails that say 'Oh, now I understand!'? Yes!
I shared with my people and similar responses. They get it, finally. I even posted it in LinkedIn and someone liked it. I have posted similar things before and have not had people liking it. My world is left leaning do gooders so this reception is amazing.
Wonderful! Let’s keep sharing it! I’m going to wait for the rest of my emails to come to me and then send it to the ones who sent me nothing … in case they missed it! Also in a left leaning world here.
I think the key to keeping this training moving in this direction is to stick with the facts and practicalities and keep our ideological/gender critical/rad fam/whatever beliefs to ourselves and our close ones. Ideology is what got us here. Most people are sick of ideology. Lets get back to reality.
Lisa makes an interesting sort of “edge” point on the driver’s license issue. Public documents that accurately record sex are important for a number of reasons. A really good resource discussing that is : “Why Do We Need Data on Sex?”, by Alice Sullivan, Kath Murray, and Lisa Mackenzie, in Sex and Gender, A Contemporary Reader. I don’t know to what extent driver’s license data has been relied on for gathering such data, but if it has, and if, as eg, in NYS, folks can now ID themselves as non-binary on their drivers licenses, it will be important to recognize that a drivers license cannot be used to collect data related to sex, as the data has been corrupted. It’s just one of the cascade of problems we now face in trying to undo the malign consequences attendant to the unthinking, mistaken acceptance of gender as a factual reality in law and public policy.
I’ve now read the whole of this Friday’s in brief and want to give thanks and praise to Lisa and Alejandra for continuing this fine tradition. Also, glad to see inclusion of the Burgo piece, which I found quite thought-provoking on reading through it yesterday. While I thought the opening paragraph 2-dimensional, otherwise this was a thoughtful, intelligent discussion, from a therapeutic perspective, of the issue under review. It brought to mind, again, Corinna Cohn’s podcast on the general topic (I can’t find the link offhand, will supply it if I do) and Leor Sapir’s observation that a key problem is that gender affirmation has been treated as a civil rights issues, whereas it should be treated as mental health issues with civil rights implications. That seems to me to be a much more sensible frame for thinking through law and public policy than the one either side of the aisle is currently using.
Pamela Paul said everything I've been thinking and keeping mostly to myself, having experienced a child's short (thank God) flirtation with being trans in high school. The only part she did not speak to is that schools are hiding these transitions from parents and that is harmful.
What a great opinion piece. Finally! It’s sad to have to praise the writer for her courage for simply writing a an well-reasoned article, but in today’s political climate it does take courage.
I want to recommend a podcast called The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling. Interesting discussion of the growth of online animosity and the co-mingling on tumblr of innocence and corruption. Tumblr may have been where the AGP community ran smack into pop culture and, speculating here, couldn't justify itself except to say it was a gender identity thing and not a sexual fetish.
Thank you to all who got the piece published. I shared with my group of middle aged left leaning friends and they get it. This piece speaks to us/them and was so necessary.
There are hundreds of comments now, and it looks like the most popular ones are very laudatory and appreciative, including some from current or retired medical professionals. I hesitate to say that this could be a turning point (how many times have we said that in the last couple of years?), but maybe it will encourage more people to speak out.
Yes! Cautiously optimistic. Did anyone else notice they don’t mention possibility of not experiencing orgasm due to puberty blockers and/or surgeries? Or was it mentioned & I missed it? I feel like this is just such a basic concern, but so many people are shocked when I mention it.
I think you're right. The harmful effects of blockers and surgeries are hinted at, and infertility is mentioned as a side effect of hormone treatment, but there's nothing about sexual function or enjoyment. This does seem like a serious omission. I think the article would have been better if it provided more general information and less detail about specific people, though I know that people often find individual stories more compelling than scientific facts.
Thank you, Lisa and Alejandra! And thank you for sharing the Pamela Paul opinion. I've written in thanking her for her well-researched and thoughtful piece.
There are now 1.5K comments to Pamela Paul’s article, and the article is still open to comments. Pamela Paul has replied to one, and her reply is excellent both tone and substance. The comment is from “LGB” who is expressing concern about sexual orientation being grouped together under the rubric of LGBTQ+ (I am unable to cut and paste the comment and reply, but it’s easy to find—just look under NYT Replies.) Many responders to LGB’s comment are hostile, which makes Paul’s sensitivity and willingness to listen all the more important. Paul is definitely modeling here exactly the kind of open conversation we need to have. May it take hold!
The Paul piece is IMMENSE. Grateful thanks to all those who stepped forward and are included in this article, and no doubt many others who worked hard behind the scenes to offer research and guidance. More of this please! 🙏🙏🙏
I am nearly in tears. sorry you weren't the one to write this but it feels like the first day in a halfway house after leaving an abusive partner. I expect a few more go-rounds with backlash etc but please let it be possible to at least discuss this now.
FYI: you can now comment on the Paul piece (on the web version—the app seems not to have the option. I have done so, with this comment: I want to extend my grateful thanks to Pamela Paul for this well-researched, thoughtful article. I am a lifelong, mostly progressive, Democrat, and I have become increasingly concerned about the unwillingness of so many people—and elected officials and candidates—to engage honestly and openly with these issues. Out of that concern, I have worked hard to educate myself broadly and deeply, and to engage in difficult conversations with friends and neighbors to encourage a more multi-faceted view. Paul’s article offers us all another chance to do that, and,together, to wrest this issue out of the hands of those across the political spectrum intent on weaponizing it, so we can arrive at humane approaches and solutions for all the children and families who are affected, and for society at large.
Here is what is so amazing about the NYT piece, many of my friends who weren't 'quite yet' on board with what I was telling them about our own daughter emailed me the article today! Friends who won't go near the debate because they don't want to believe a true story or aren't 'couldn't be bothered' to learn more. They emailed me the article! That is a huge win here. I sent them thankful replies for thinking of us, reading the article and appreciating it. Anyone else awash in emails that say 'Oh, now I understand!'? Yes!
I shared with my people and similar responses. They get it, finally. I even posted it in LinkedIn and someone liked it. I have posted similar things before and have not had people liking it. My world is left leaning do gooders so this reception is amazing.
Wonderful! Let’s keep sharing it! I’m going to wait for the rest of my emails to come to me and then send it to the ones who sent me nothing … in case they missed it! Also in a left leaning world here.
I think the key to keeping this training moving in this direction is to stick with the facts and practicalities and keep our ideological/gender critical/rad fam/whatever beliefs to ourselves and our close ones. Ideology is what got us here. Most people are sick of ideology. Lets get back to reality.
Lisa makes an interesting sort of “edge” point on the driver’s license issue. Public documents that accurately record sex are important for a number of reasons. A really good resource discussing that is : “Why Do We Need Data on Sex?”, by Alice Sullivan, Kath Murray, and Lisa Mackenzie, in Sex and Gender, A Contemporary Reader. I don’t know to what extent driver’s license data has been relied on for gathering such data, but if it has, and if, as eg, in NYS, folks can now ID themselves as non-binary on their drivers licenses, it will be important to recognize that a drivers license cannot be used to collect data related to sex, as the data has been corrupted. It’s just one of the cascade of problems we now face in trying to undo the malign consequences attendant to the unthinking, mistaken acceptance of gender as a factual reality in law and public policy.
I’ve now read the whole of this Friday’s in brief and want to give thanks and praise to Lisa and Alejandra for continuing this fine tradition. Also, glad to see inclusion of the Burgo piece, which I found quite thought-provoking on reading through it yesterday. While I thought the opening paragraph 2-dimensional, otherwise this was a thoughtful, intelligent discussion, from a therapeutic perspective, of the issue under review. It brought to mind, again, Corinna Cohn’s podcast on the general topic (I can’t find the link offhand, will supply it if I do) and Leor Sapir’s observation that a key problem is that gender affirmation has been treated as a civil rights issues, whereas it should be treated as mental health issues with civil rights implications. That seems to me to be a much more sensible frame for thinking through law and public policy than the one either side of the aisle is currently using.
I have now found the interview with Corinna Cohn I noted in the comment. It is superb. I highly recommend it: https://youtu.be/-nSUAqdT0fw?feature=shared
Pamela Paul said everything I've been thinking and keeping mostly to myself, having experienced a child's short (thank God) flirtation with being trans in high school. The only part she did not speak to is that schools are hiding these transitions from parents and that is harmful.
What a great opinion piece. Finally! It’s sad to have to praise the writer for her courage for simply writing a an well-reasoned article, but in today’s political climate it does take courage.
shocking to see this article this morning
I want to recommend a podcast called The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling. Interesting discussion of the growth of online animosity and the co-mingling on tumblr of innocence and corruption. Tumblr may have been where the AGP community ran smack into pop culture and, speculating here, couldn't justify itself except to say it was a gender identity thing and not a sexual fetish.
https://www.thefp.com/witchtrials
Thank you to all who got the piece published. I shared with my group of middle aged left leaning friends and they get it. This piece speaks to us/them and was so necessary.
Archived version of NYT article.
https://archive.is/20240202130219/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/opinion/transgender-children-gender-dysphoria.html
Thank you!
YES!!!! It's about damn time!
It's a pity there are no comments allowed (at least at the moment) on that NYT article. Is that usual for opinion pieces?
There are hundreds of comments now, and it looks like the most popular ones are very laudatory and appreciative, including some from current or retired medical professionals. I hesitate to say that this could be a turning point (how many times have we said that in the last couple of years?), but maybe it will encourage more people to speak out.
Yes! Cautiously optimistic. Did anyone else notice they don’t mention possibility of not experiencing orgasm due to puberty blockers and/or surgeries? Or was it mentioned & I missed it? I feel like this is just such a basic concern, but so many people are shocked when I mention it.
I think you're right. The harmful effects of blockers and surgeries are hinted at, and infertility is mentioned as a side effect of hormone treatment, but there's nothing about sexual function or enjoyment. This does seem like a serious omission. I think the article would have been better if it provided more general information and less detail about specific people, though I know that people often find individual stories more compelling than scientific facts.
Comments are open now
comments will likely be allowed after a few hours, which is common, esp after a controversial piece