And good point re: JK about framing it as women’s rights has been lost. I’m a parent in the trenches with this. It is exhausting, scary and it’s colored my whole life. But that is what happens when a family member has mental illness.
Yes, agreed. I have come to think of the women's rights frame as a helpful way of thinking about the teen girls' bodies and selves (however non-conforming) that are "losing out" and that need lifted up in all this. I'm right there in the trenches with you - hang in there.
My daughter’s paediatrician tells me she doesn’t know anything about gender, (even though she raised the topic) and that’s why she refers kids to the experts at the gender clinic. I suggested the real reason was so she could claim plausible deniability when the shit hits the fan.
The section of your article here that relays Chloe Cole speaking out to the APA, and it falling in dear ears, worse APA double-downing, stays with me. Heartbreaking. Isn’t that cognitive dissonance precisely? Well, I so appreciate your optimism and reporting, thank you.
It is indeed cognitive dissonance of the most destructive type, but to accept her comments the practitioners would have to admit they they were the cruel perpetrators of her and others mistreatment. They would also have to admit that these decisions should not be made by minors who are not legally allowed even to smoke or use alcohol in order t9 protect them. The remedy that would get the attention of these practitioners is to get laws passed that neither they nor their parents/ legal guardians can give informed consent before the person undergoing the “ transitioning “ is age 25 and if they were treated they are able to sue the providers until they are 30 years old. I suspect that these “medical providers” know that their actions would not be condoned if scrutinized in the light of day by a jury after hearing the testimony of the patient involved.
Thanks for bringing such good news with the sunrise and my morning coffee! Despite the embedded language so many of us reject ("cisgender" and "assigned female at birth") the article gets to the nub of the matter that THE SCIENCE IS NOT SETTLED. Why has that been so very hard to report? It's not about culture wars. As you and other independent journalists have been saying over and OVER for years. This shift is better late than never, but sadly too late for so many families with damaged relationships and harmed young people who the mainstream media has betrayed. You should be getting journalistic awards, not the NYT.
I very much look forward to reading your analysis on how it came to be that the “media has ceded the most important part of their job, which is to examine issues from multiple viewpoints.” As you note, the Rowling video game story you link is an excellent example of the problem. A trope takes hold, no one bothers to examine it, and it is then repeated, over and over. An article in the American Prospect is another example of that: https://prospect.org/culture/2023-02-10-based-harry-potter-ethical-consumption/ Once you learn what Rowling’s views actually are, the writer’s entire point is defeated.
Lisa and fellow readers, you really ought to listen to this podcast among Michael Hobbes, Ryan Cooper, and others. It's well, just listen to a bit. Understand that it is from a couple of days ago. Just amazinggggggggggg!!!!! Pay particular attention to the claims made, especially by Michael Hobbes.
I'll listen as soon as I can. Thanks for sending. It makes me so sad that fellow lefties are assuming the objectors don't get the science. It's endless gaslighting. I don't know how those who've dug their heels in so deep are going to be able to take a step back.
i googled person with name Michael Hobbes. not sure if its the same person but the Michael Hobbes was part of a mens rights movment called gender ideology that is promoting quack health care thats harming kids and dysphoric ppl also erasing the rights of women, gays, kids parents and others
sure appears to be the same person. no one cares if adults ID as a christmas tree or scorpion or whatever. but ppl who argue theres evidence gender meds help kids, or that bio men should have access to womens spaces are ppl who are in love with the mens rights movement called gender ideology. looking at this persons tweets sure looks like hes one of the MRA's pushing this fraud. i understand they are victims of a 20 year misinformation campaign that continues to this day. but that doesnt change the fact that gender ideology erases the rights of a half a doz groups and is misogynistic, homophobic and often racist
I know he is one of the biggest antagonists toward Jesse Singal. If you have a chance do listen to a bit of that Michael Hobbes podcast that i linked to. It's really amazing..........and not in a good way.
"In the absence of high quality evidence and the presence of a patient population in need—who are willing to take on more personal risk—consensus based guidelines are not unwarranted, says Helfand. “But don’t call them evidence based.'" This quote from the BMJ article really resonates with me. My kid has been led to believe that medical interventions are evidence based and are without question the only right path forward. Reading this quote, I realize that, even if I could convince her that these interventions are not evidence-based, she would be willing to take the risk and, that, with a 16-year old's not fully developed brain, and predisposition to risk-taking, that makes perfect sense. This makes me wonder, can a 16-year-old really give informed consent? Not the first person to wonder about this, I know, but somehow this article helped me put pieces together.
Agree, it is not logical when we have so many safeguards in place for youth. My recollection of the arguments for allowing a family to cover a young adult on insurance until age 26 was because the cost of insurance was so high, and so few young adults were in positions that either provided the coverage option or where a wage was earned enough to provide such coverage independently. Now we have a system that bifurcates medical decision-making in families starting at age 13 in many states.
"For those who stand firm in the idea that there should be no debate on this topic, it’s a painful indication that the media has begun to refuse to kowtow to activist narratives."
It's not just a matter of media "kowtow[ing] to activist narratives." US mainstream media is predominantly liberal Democratic - meaning its civil rights era focus on minority rights and equal protection is historically geared towards trans rights, and, more generally, identity politics.
This is not in and of itself a problem. Though it would take more space to make the case, I would argue the problem is this:
that identity politics is what Democratic liberals have been left with since they largely gave up more embracing, populist visions of the good - such as medical care for all citizens;
and, along the same lines, that identity politics functions as a placeholder for that more embracing, progressive-liberal vision of politics.
Upshot: 'Gender-affirmative or gender-critical - here at the NYT, we both agree trans issues are the most salient medical question. Should lower income people have access to good basic healthcare in America? Hey, let's not get off topic...'
Thanks so much for bringing to mind one leading medical journal open to criticism of the current fad. As a retired pediatric specialist, I consider the way the AAP and the Endocrine Society have gotten into lockstep with transgender activists to be the single greatest professional malfeasance of my career. As I read amazingly well documented perspectives on Substack, I am just gobsmacked by the clarity and common sense behind most of the perspectives. Many thanks to all.
Hey Lisa, Are you familiar with the style guide of the Trans Journalist association? Might be a good thing to look into. They pretty much don't want anyone talking about the transition of young people.
Thank you for your recent interviews on The Hill. While I still wish that the trans widows, ex-wives of men who ideate a female persona, and the children they fathered, would get just a half sentence when this topic is reported on, I found your calm logic to be a welcome contrast to the exaggerated text of the GLAAD letter to the NY Times. The fact is, some of these men, who said they were happy for the first 5 years after surgeries, are now detransitioned. Not my ex-husband, he's still saying he's the mother of our 2 grown sons--but he never appears happy or makes statements indicating happiness. The last time I communicated with him, he complained about his step-son, the one who believes I am not the mother of his older step-brothers, my sons.
I see you Ute. My friends narcissistic husband transitioned when their kids were 5-12. He insisted the kids suddenly call him mama, demanded that mother's day be his holiday (she happily gave it to him because she got him to agree to pay for college--real mothers sacrifice their egos for their children), and now is trying to breastfeed his new partner's baby by taking medicine (couldn't provide sperm because of gonadal atrophy). He continues to create drama in the family...
Please let her know that I can tell her story with a pseudonym at Ute Heggen channel. I have several trans widows contacting me, preparing to tell their true tales. I hope she can keep the children grounded. I can't even comment on the baby! The contact form at uteheggengrasswidow.wordpress.com is how to contact me. If this proves difficult to find, I can use the comment section of my YT channel to put up something temporarily. Thanks! Ute
Perhaps the TRAs’ insistence that no studies or evidence are truly necessary is a reflection of the immaterial nature of the condition. Surgeries are prescribed based on a belief. The belief is more important than the outcome. So studying treatment outcomes is irrelevant to the true believers. Sure, maybe some people have bad results, but, hey, if they’re true believers, they’ll believe it just proves their commitment.
I will add vis a vis the American Academy of pediatrics that a lot of this seemed to happen invisibly during covid and poof when we met again in person it was a fait accompli.
I’ll take Any dose I can get. Thank you.
And good point re: JK about framing it as women’s rights has been lost. I’m a parent in the trenches with this. It is exhausting, scary and it’s colored my whole life. But that is what happens when a family member has mental illness.
Yes, agreed. I have come to think of the women's rights frame as a helpful way of thinking about the teen girls' bodies and selves (however non-conforming) that are "losing out" and that need lifted up in all this. I'm right there in the trenches with you - hang in there.
I am a pediatrician and an AAP member and it’s disgusting how everyone’s brains fell out on this topic. It’s criminal.
My daughter’s paediatrician tells me she doesn’t know anything about gender, (even though she raised the topic) and that’s why she refers kids to the experts at the gender clinic. I suggested the real reason was so she could claim plausible deniability when the shit hits the fan.
please get yourself onto the relevant committee & shake up that organization!
they are crucifying children on the altar of their ideological errors.
Even my friend who directs public medical services for adult trans patients has rolled her eyes at the standard of care for kids.
This is massive. The BMJ has impeccable credentials and is WIDELY read. This is indeed a breakthrough. https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p382.full.print
The section of your article here that relays Chloe Cole speaking out to the APA, and it falling in dear ears, worse APA double-downing, stays with me. Heartbreaking. Isn’t that cognitive dissonance precisely? Well, I so appreciate your optimism and reporting, thank you.
It is indeed cognitive dissonance of the most destructive type, but to accept her comments the practitioners would have to admit they they were the cruel perpetrators of her and others mistreatment. They would also have to admit that these decisions should not be made by minors who are not legally allowed even to smoke or use alcohol in order t9 protect them. The remedy that would get the attention of these practitioners is to get laws passed that neither they nor their parents/ legal guardians can give informed consent before the person undergoing the “ transitioning “ is age 25 and if they were treated they are able to sue the providers until they are 30 years old. I suspect that these “medical providers” know that their actions would not be condoned if scrutinized in the light of day by a jury after hearing the testimony of the patient involved.
*deaf ears
Thanks for bringing such good news with the sunrise and my morning coffee! Despite the embedded language so many of us reject ("cisgender" and "assigned female at birth") the article gets to the nub of the matter that THE SCIENCE IS NOT SETTLED. Why has that been so very hard to report? It's not about culture wars. As you and other independent journalists have been saying over and OVER for years. This shift is better late than never, but sadly too late for so many families with damaged relationships and harmed young people who the mainstream media has betrayed. You should be getting journalistic awards, not the NYT.
And your own work, and Bernard Lane...!
And for medical journalism, the excellent Reuters investigative series that gave a lot of hard scary facts about what is happening in the US (which Block quotes)! Eg https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/
Thank you!!!!
I very much look forward to reading your analysis on how it came to be that the “media has ceded the most important part of their job, which is to examine issues from multiple viewpoints.” As you note, the Rowling video game story you link is an excellent example of the problem. A trope takes hold, no one bothers to examine it, and it is then repeated, over and over. An article in the American Prospect is another example of that: https://prospect.org/culture/2023-02-10-based-harry-potter-ethical-consumption/ Once you learn what Rowling’s views actually are, the writer’s entire point is defeated.
Lisa and fellow readers, you really ought to listen to this podcast among Michael Hobbes, Ryan Cooper, and others. It's well, just listen to a bit. Understand that it is from a couple of days ago. Just amazinggggggggggg!!!!! Pay particular attention to the claims made, especially by Michael Hobbes.
Would love your thoughts.
https://prospect.org/podcasts/02-20-2023-trans-panic-new-york-times/
I'll listen as soon as I can. Thanks for sending. It makes me so sad that fellow lefties are assuming the objectors don't get the science. It's endless gaslighting. I don't know how those who've dug their heels in so deep are going to be able to take a step back.
i googled person with name Michael Hobbes. not sure if its the same person but the Michael Hobbes was part of a mens rights movment called gender ideology that is promoting quack health care thats harming kids and dysphoric ppl also erasing the rights of women, gays, kids parents and others
I don't think it is the same person....michael hobbes is trans I believe. This is his twitter thread worth going through...
https://twitter.com/RottenInDenmark
sure appears to be the same person. no one cares if adults ID as a christmas tree or scorpion or whatever. but ppl who argue theres evidence gender meds help kids, or that bio men should have access to womens spaces are ppl who are in love with the mens rights movement called gender ideology. looking at this persons tweets sure looks like hes one of the MRA's pushing this fraud. i understand they are victims of a 20 year misinformation campaign that continues to this day. but that doesnt change the fact that gender ideology erases the rights of a half a doz groups and is misogynistic, homophobic and often racist
I know he is one of the biggest antagonists toward Jesse Singal. If you have a chance do listen to a bit of that Michael Hobbes podcast that i linked to. It's really amazing..........and not in a good way.
https://prospect.org/podcasts/02-20-2023-trans-panic-new-york-times/
ill pass ty
"In the absence of high quality evidence and the presence of a patient population in need—who are willing to take on more personal risk—consensus based guidelines are not unwarranted, says Helfand. “But don’t call them evidence based.'" This quote from the BMJ article really resonates with me. My kid has been led to believe that medical interventions are evidence based and are without question the only right path forward. Reading this quote, I realize that, even if I could convince her that these interventions are not evidence-based, she would be willing to take the risk and, that, with a 16-year old's not fully developed brain, and predisposition to risk-taking, that makes perfect sense. This makes me wonder, can a 16-year-old really give informed consent? Not the first person to wonder about this, I know, but somehow this article helped me put pieces together.
Agree, it is not logical when we have so many safeguards in place for youth. My recollection of the arguments for allowing a family to cover a young adult on insurance until age 26 was because the cost of insurance was so high, and so few young adults were in positions that either provided the coverage option or where a wage was earned enough to provide such coverage independently. Now we have a system that bifurcates medical decision-making in families starting at age 13 in many states.
"For those who stand firm in the idea that there should be no debate on this topic, it’s a painful indication that the media has begun to refuse to kowtow to activist narratives."
It's not just a matter of media "kowtow[ing] to activist narratives." US mainstream media is predominantly liberal Democratic - meaning its civil rights era focus on minority rights and equal protection is historically geared towards trans rights, and, more generally, identity politics.
This is not in and of itself a problem. Though it would take more space to make the case, I would argue the problem is this:
that identity politics is what Democratic liberals have been left with since they largely gave up more embracing, populist visions of the good - such as medical care for all citizens;
and, along the same lines, that identity politics functions as a placeholder for that more embracing, progressive-liberal vision of politics.
Upshot: 'Gender-affirmative or gender-critical - here at the NYT, we both agree trans issues are the most salient medical question. Should lower income people have access to good basic healthcare in America? Hey, let's not get off topic...'
Thanks so much for bringing to mind one leading medical journal open to criticism of the current fad. As a retired pediatric specialist, I consider the way the AAP and the Endocrine Society have gotten into lockstep with transgender activists to be the single greatest professional malfeasance of my career. As I read amazingly well documented perspectives on Substack, I am just gobsmacked by the clarity and common sense behind most of the perspectives. Many thanks to all.
Hey Lisa, Are you familiar with the style guide of the Trans Journalist association? Might be a good thing to look into. They pretty much don't want anyone talking about the transition of young people.
Thank you for your recent interviews on The Hill. While I still wish that the trans widows, ex-wives of men who ideate a female persona, and the children they fathered, would get just a half sentence when this topic is reported on, I found your calm logic to be a welcome contrast to the exaggerated text of the GLAAD letter to the NY Times. The fact is, some of these men, who said they were happy for the first 5 years after surgeries, are now detransitioned. Not my ex-husband, he's still saying he's the mother of our 2 grown sons--but he never appears happy or makes statements indicating happiness. The last time I communicated with him, he complained about his step-son, the one who believes I am not the mother of his older step-brothers, my sons.
I see you Ute. My friends narcissistic husband transitioned when their kids were 5-12. He insisted the kids suddenly call him mama, demanded that mother's day be his holiday (she happily gave it to him because she got him to agree to pay for college--real mothers sacrifice their egos for their children), and now is trying to breastfeed his new partner's baby by taking medicine (couldn't provide sperm because of gonadal atrophy). He continues to create drama in the family...
Please let her know that I can tell her story with a pseudonym at Ute Heggen channel. I have several trans widows contacting me, preparing to tell their true tales. I hope she can keep the children grounded. I can't even comment on the baby! The contact form at uteheggengrasswidow.wordpress.com is how to contact me. If this proves difficult to find, I can use the comment section of my YT channel to put up something temporarily. Thanks! Ute
Perhaps the TRAs’ insistence that no studies or evidence are truly necessary is a reflection of the immaterial nature of the condition. Surgeries are prescribed based on a belief. The belief is more important than the outcome. So studying treatment outcomes is irrelevant to the true believers. Sure, maybe some people have bad results, but, hey, if they’re true believers, they’ll believe it just proves their commitment.
Thank you for sharing this - and for sharing your hopes for things to come.
I will add vis a vis the American Academy of pediatrics that a lot of this seemed to happen invisibly during covid and poof when we met again in person it was a fait accompli.